Anyone have solar panels

Yep, match the inverter to at least combined panel "max" (PTC)
Microinverters have a lot of advantages; I would choose them over a central large inverter too.

Not only are they less affected by partial shade (think clouds), you have to have a lot of micros fail to match the cost of a failed central inverter. I tend to think (but am not sure) that a failed micro can be a DIY job, which is rarely the case with a central one.

 

No, the installer would have nothing to do with it as they'll be paid and gone. The deep pockets are citibank, the installer would get a fee for selling and installing, but citi would end up owning the system and collecting credits. I don't know about CA, but in mass leasing is attractive for finance co's because the energy credits are FAR more valuable than the value of the utility credit given to the consumer(free power).

 

Schorert, on month #1 of a new PV put up with a leasing scheme, who receives the production credit ?

 

The microinverters that are warranteed for 25 yrs and "never go bad"...well one went bad on my install within weeks. ( I believe it wasn't installed properly) but the installer sent one guy out with a ladder and swapped it in about 15 minutes, the inverter being the size of a paperback and costing about $160 retail. Eventually I'll be on the hook for labor for such calls, but the installer said the labor cost to swap one out would be $50.

 

well the utility credit goes to the homeowner, yes? and then all the tax and renewable energy credits would go to the lease co...yes?

Again, I'm sorry if I'm making assumptions about how this works in other states. In MY state, MA, I was offered a lease which gave me cheap power with no hardware costs at all. This sounded too good to be true, and it was...as in mass the tax credits and SRECS are MUCH more valuable than the utility credits.
So I would get a free system and almost free power that I was paying .20$ per kWh
The lease company would get all the tax credits, state rebates, and SREC credit valued at .54$/kWh.

 

^^ Did you happen to see a contract ?
I cannot help but be skeptical that a bank buys PV and then leases it to customers. Possible, but it seems so out of character.

 

It was done by SolarCity. I'm VERY pleased with every single aspect of the system.

 

I really liked the microinverter concept and would prefer that route, but no one has yet to build a system around them that can handle over 5,500 kWh (Suntech, Siliken, Canadian Solar are the panels in the 3 quotes I have with inverters). The only quotes I have got that will do 6,500 - 8,000 are the SunPower quotes. I liked the fact the Micro Inverters carried 20-25 year warrenties and could disable individual panels due to shading. Shading isn't an issue though with our install unless we get into blotchy clouds and such.

I'm going to call the main SunPower guy and hit him up with your inverter concers. I'm interested to hear what he has to say. I'll post back with the results.

 

My understanding is if you go with SunPower the lease is carried by SunPower. Which I highly doubt is going anywhere after reading into that company. Also SunPower backs the Installer. So if the installer goes belly up (much more likely) they honor the lease through probably issuing it's O&M to another dealer. They also pickup the 10 year manufacturer install guarantee.

 

I think you meant 5,500Watt, or 5.5kW?
I have a microinverter array on a 6.5kW system...Enphase Energy - Enlighten | Schorer Residence

I believe they're wired on two circuits, two breakers on a subpanel, and then into my main panel. Microinverters provide real-time telemetry on all each individual unit. I will say, the two leases and one of the purchases I checked out would not spec microinverters. A lease company wants to keep costs down, and micro's are a little more expensive. They are more efficient, especially if you have any shading issues at all.

Now that I re-read your post...it's not a engineering problem, you just say that no provider will design a system for YOU using them? That kind of makes sense if you're looking at leases they probably have a cost ceiling for your equipment...so they'll give you some more panels, or microinverters, but they can't afford to do both.

 

Yeah you are right 5.5kW.

I told every company I was open to prepaid lease or purchase and that my target was max production my roof would allow with 8k being the target. I think my restriction is just 16 or 18 panels depending on the brand and then beyond that the actual production of the panels.

My main concern is that the SunPower setup I am eyeballing may be "to good to be true" because he is just so much higher then the others in production kW. He is suposed to catch up with me today and I'm going to ask him for more info on his inverter selection.

 

I'm in Delaware and we are leasing a new system from a company called Sungevity. SO far we have been very pleased.

There was zero upfront cost, the system had been up and running for a month and a half before the lease payments started, the lease payments themselves are less than half my old electric bill. They warrant the roof and system, because they own it they are responsible for all maintenance and repairs. I get all the electricity it produces, if it makes more than I use I get the credit with the power company. The company gets the tax credits (because I didn't buy it) and they get some sort of transferrable credit they can sell to industry or something.

Again zero upfront cost and huge savings from the first day it went in, and I am charging a Volt so its using more juice than a Pip would.

 

I have 5kw of solar panels and a 4kw inverter. It actually makes sense.
My panels are not ideally situated, and they are often over 20 degrees celcius.
If that is the case, they won't put out their rated power. I can see the power from my inverter every 10 minutes.
It does max out for a little while every day (more in the summertime).

Remember, the power output of the panels is the maximum power under ideal conditions.

 

^^ lopgok,

The output is not ideal maximum output, it is STC (or PTC -- I'm forgetting). Direct sun on a cold day will exceed the spec easily, and this is amplified by altitude.

 

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I installed a solar electric system last December. 14 Sharp panels that each generate 235 watts. The system should generate 5,900 KWH each year and save $1,800 the first year and save more $ each year as electric rate continue to increase. Estimated to save $31,663 in 10 years more than paying for the system that cost less than $20,000 after rebates. These estimates were made last year.

This weekend I ran some number to see how I am doing so far. In May my PV Solar system generated 613 kWh and I used 1,117 kWH including all my generated power plus 504 kWh I got from Edison for $80. I saved about $170! If you do the math you may notice those numbers don’t agree. That’s because Edison charged me $0.16 per kWh for what I used but they would have charged me $0.28 per kWH for the energy I generated myself because of their tiered billing system. The more you use the more you pay per kWh.

At this rate I my solar system is on track to pay for itself in 10 years if electric rates stay the same. (or sooner than that if rates continue to go up at their historic pace).

Some of that 1,117 kWH I used in May included charging my car. My PlugIn Prius used 95 kWH to go 392 miles. So 9% of my electric usage was for charging my car. My Prius only goes about 14 miles on electric before the battery is drained and the gas engine kicks in. In May I drove an additional 753 miles on gas using 16 gals of gas. I got 71 MPG (if you include the miles I drove on electric) or 47 MPG on you only count the miles driven using gas.

It costs me about $0.04 per mile for "fuel" when I drive my Plug-In Prius in electric mode and about $0.08 per mile for fuel when I use gas that costs $4.25 per gallon. The extra $2,500 I paid (after state and federal rebates) to have a Plug-In model will probably not "pay for itself" (unless I drive charge it 4,461 times which would take 12 years charging it once per day). But I still love driving with homemade and renewable "fuel" with zero CO2 emissions.

I would be paying $0.13 per mile if I was driving America's most popular car (Toyota Camry) or $0.22 per mile to drive America's most popular vehicle (Ford F-150

 

This reminds me I need to get a new pool pump. I started a new topic to discuss that. Pool pump electric use | PriusChat

 

How much does Edison credit you per kWh?
MA now requires Net Metering which credits at the full rate per kWh...this is a change from a few years ago where they would only credit you generation charge, not delivery charges, which is about half of the .20c/kWh rate we pay.
Just wondering under a tiered system how they credit...obviously they're going to credit you at the lowest tier rate they have?

 

I tried to figure out if Southern California Edison credits generation or delivery or both and I can't tell. The rate schedule is overwhelming and incomprehensible. They also have a special rate schedule for electric vehicles and I can't tell if I would be batter off with that one.

 

Sunpower panels have some of the highest efficiencies. It means (presuming you can afford their premium U.S.Manufactured cost) your similarly kW rated panel will be noticeably smaller in size ... which allows you to install more power, in a smaller space. If your install space is at a premium then sunpower panels are a definite plus. We're more than happy with our sunpower setup.

Easy big fella . . . you're getting the cart before the horse. Don't confuse a PV "self-install" (you CAN self install) with the final hook up. Obviously, power has to be killed to your main panel, and that has to be coordinated with the utility. Only a moron would try and do that kind of electric work with out a contractor who has the right class license. That said, I have yet to find a community that doesn't allow any kind of construction, as long as a permit is pulled, and each phase passed the inspector's blessings. Once you've properly mounted/installed your PV / inverter(s) / hardware - the final steps simply has to be done by the contractor. That work can save you a boat load. There are tons of "how-to" reads on the web ... as well as video and books. PV is pretty simple for folks with a decent working knowledge of electricity & construction. That said, do NOT try the PV preliminary work, if your knowledge of electricity & construction basics is mediocre ... you COULD kill your self.

For those interested there's a nice, long, informative thread here, of the numerous PV folks that are on PC;

Our Solar Electric Panels: Done! | PriusChat

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enjoy!​

Lastly ... my pet peeve ... folks making reference to their system as a DC rating. Why?!? Your house doesn't run on DC. You have efficiency/loss going on! You have orientation and time of year losses. C'mon folks ... is a bigger number really important to you? Call it what it is! AC is what you use, and AC ultimately is what you get. If you need to talk bigger ... then go buy a hummer.


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SGH-I717R ? 2

 

Unfortunately, YOU are hooking your CA horse to a MA wagon. Of course you can pull a permit and do whatever you like.
In MA, there is a rebate of between $4k and $12k(mine was $8k) offered by the MA CEC for residential rooftop PV systems. To qualify for this rebate you must use a CEC-approved installer. They also require an independent energy audit, and constrain the size of your install. Still, if you want to buy solar panels yourself and avoid the rebate, go for it.
Now, MassCEC also runs the SREC program in MA. I am unsure if a non-cec approved installation will be eligible for the SREC program, my guess is no as Mass CEC certifies the design and the meter used to energy production.
Registering to trade my srecs was very cumbersome and I was directed to a broker(SRECTrade). According to a very honest person at MassCEC "it's intentionally complicated so homeowners do not complete the process themselves...we could not process all the applications if homewoners filed their own...To date (last Oct) ONE homeowner has completed the process himself."

so you CAN install whatever you like, but even an electrician(and solar contractor) I know jumped through the same hoops to get an install done. I will rephrase my statement and say that no matter how technical you are, MassCEC makes DIY array installs much more complicated and expensive.