Anyone interested in larger rear anti-sway bar

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Accessories & Modifications' started by FredWB, Oct 22, 2005.

  1. FredWB

    FredWB New Member

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    Like I said in another thread, I've removed my stock bar, measured it and drove the car without it. I didn't detect much difference. I've found someone to make us a new bar to our specs. They will make a jig from my bar and be able to make us a new one. Volume helps here so there's a discount for us as follows:
    2-5 15%
    5-9 30%
    9-24 37%

    I'm hoping to be able to get at least 5 people to take a chance with me and get the price down to probably $80. plus shipping and painting. The bars will be unfinished so you'll have to paint it or powder coat it yourself and of course pay for shipping to me and then from me to you. It will probably take about 10 days from the time they receive my bar. We can expedite this for maybe another $30, I'll have to check with my source. The idea is to allow the new bar to drop right in and fit the rubber bushing in the middle and of course not hit the bottom part of the torsion beam...it's close there so I'll instruct the manufacturer to make the bottom of the bar the lowest point along the bar so It should fit. I'm going to increase the diameter by only about 0.125" and it will be solid. So the weight will increase from about 2.7 lbs to 7.1 lbs

    The stock bar is about 0.759" OD and 0.568" ID (by weight calculation).

    So if this bar was solid it would be about 46% stiffer.

    If we go to a solid bar with a 0.875" OD it would be 158% stiffer. That's about a 22mm bar compared to a 19.5 mm bar. A solid bar is recommended to keep the cost down. The bars will be unfinished so you'll either have to paint it or have it powder coated. I can't guarantee any performance difference but I'm going to get one for myself and anyone else that wants one. If I can get 5 bars ordered the cost goes down by about 30% and once we have the fixture built we can re-order them. I don't plan to make anything on this but just cover all the costs.

    So let's get the discussion going. What do you think. Do you want to try one? How about the solid VS hollow choice? The ID of course has a small effect on the stiffness but can reduce the weight. I don't want to go too far or we might start having oversteer issues. Maybe we'll follow this with the front one I don't know. That's a bit tougher to remove so at this point it's open to discussion too. Anyone have any ideas on this? Thanks
     
  2. rutafox

    rutafox New Member

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  3. rutafox

    rutafox New Member

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    Sorry FredBW but the Prius dose not have any anti-sway bars on it.
     
  4. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    ??

    what are you talking about. I thought every new car nowadays have both front and rear stabiliser bars (anti-roll bars/anti-sway bars)
     
  5. rutafox

    rutafox New Member

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    And electric seats too..
     
  6. BT Tech

    BT Tech New Member

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    The 2004-2006 has a front AND rear anti-sway bar installed.

    I am not sure where you got your information but it is not correct.


    Thanks!!

    Brian
    BT Tech
    305-652-3115


     
  7. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Well, most cars under Cdn$30,000 don't have power (electric) seats (maybe aside from a Camry LE). But I've noticed even those without electric power still have more adjustments such as height and even tilt.
     
  8. Frank Hudon

    Frank Hudon Senior Member

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    even the Classic Prius has front and rear swaybars.
     
  9. FredWB

    FredWB New Member

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    So what's this on my kitchen floor then?
     
  10. rutafox

    rutafox New Member

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    That is the Torsion Bar from the Torsion beam rear suspension inside the rear axle.

    However, I have to correct myself, it does have a front sway bar. It does not have a rear sway bar.
     
  11. Frank Hudon

    Frank Hudon Senior Member

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    pictured on Fred's kitchen floor is the rear stabilizer bar
    Toyota part number 48812-63011 Price $61.42
    front bar part number 48811-47040 Price $89.14
     
  12. priusenvy

    priusenvy Senior Member

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    "rear axle"? Ok, I haven't looked under my Prius, but normally a torsion beam rear suspension just has a trailing arm on each side, and the only axles are little stubs in each wheel carrier.

    The torsion bar (or beam) performs the exact same function as a sway bar, which is to resist differential movement of the left and right sides of the suspension. In fact, how would you describe a torsion beam differently from a sway bar in this application:

    Sway bar: round bar with arms on the ends which resists differential wheel travel through torsion

    Torsion bar: round bar with arms on the ends which resists differential wheel travel through torsion

    They might be positioned differently due to the difference in suspension type, but they perform the same function. It's really not a stretch to call the torsion beam a sway bar because that's the function it performs.
     
  13. FredWB

    FredWB New Member

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    The traditional definition of a torsion bar is "A long straight bar fastened to the frame at one end and to a suspension part at the other". So that doesn't fit does it?

    The definition of anti-sway bar is:

    "stabilizer bar: a rigid metal bar between the front suspensions and between the rear suspensions of cars and trucks; serves to stabilize the chassis"

    Our rear bar to attached to torsion beam at both ends which links the left and right suspension. It's there to reduce roll by coupling the left rear suspension to the right rear suspension better than the torsion beam does on its own. There are variations on this of course where the sway bar is extended to the shock or strut area with a bend and extension on either side. These seem to be more effective.

    The rest of the world refers to what we have as an anti-sway bar or just sway bar because of how it's connected and its effect. It's incorrect to confuse this with a torsion bar because that's not what it is. You were wrong about the front and the back with your statement that the Prius doesn't have sway or anti-sway bars.
     
  14. FredWB

    FredWB New Member

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    OK, try this definition of a torsion bar and see if it fits:

    Definition: A steel bar that is twisted to support the weight of the vehicle. Torsion bars are used in place of coil or leaf springs on some vehicles, and allow ride height to be adjusted to compensate for sage that occurs over time.
     
  15. priusenvy

    priusenvy Senior Member

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    I'd call that a torsion bar spring.

    When a single bar/beam is attached to both wheels, I'd still call that a torsion bar, even though the purpose is different. Heck, you could even have a torsion beam suspension with trailing arms, where each wheel's spring was provided by a torsion bar.
     
  16. cairo94507

    cairo94507 Active Member

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    OK, regardless of what you want to call it, if a bigger or solid one will improve the handling of the car, I am interested. Add me to the list.

    I would only caution that if this is a torsion bar, that is supposed to keep the car from sagging as it ages, that by making it thicker/stronger it does not raise the car, increasing ground clearance. I do not want my Prius raised.
     
  17. FredWB

    FredWB New Member

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    In the static position, vehicle not moving, there will be zero change in vehicle height, unlike what a true torsion bar suspension will do if you beef it up. That' the big difference and why the two names are not interchangable. In motion, cornering, it does act through it's resistance to torsion (its torsional rigidity) to limit roll. Calling it a torsion beam because it works through it's torsional rigidity is really acting ignorant of the facts here. It's has a proper name or two already and it just confuses everyone about it's purpose. A torsion bar it's not and a sway bar, anti-sway bar, or even stability bar is what has been chosen for it's name. The Prius has coil springs not torsion bars in case you guys have not looked under your cars!

    Feel free to call it anything you want though if that makes you happy. Hey let's make up new names for a steering wheel too to confuse everyone. How about torque assisted steering device.

    I think I give up on this idiotic discussion because it serves no real purpose. Serves me right for trying to share something with others. I know some of you guys just love to argue over nothing...forever. I quit!
     
  18. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

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    post the removal and install steps please
     
  19. techogurl

    techogurl New Member

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    Hey Brian,

    I'd be interested in your thoughts on this.
     
  20. GeekyDragon

    GeekyDragon New Member

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    Man, you people really do like to argue about everything. :)

    FredWB, I'm interested if the price can be kept down. Let us know what the scoop is (assuming your still going forward with this).

    --GD
     
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