April-July 2013 Hybrid Dashboard Summary

That could be the Model X production coming online.

 

On the 1st point, yeah, but unfortunately (at last check), the incentives on purchasing the Rav4 EV suck/went away. I guess Toyota's experimenting to see what works best.

I do not know re: Spark EV availability but I saw 1 for the first time yesterday at my company's family picnic. We have an internal voluntary list of BEVs and PHEVs to facilitate charging stations sharing. There's only a single Spark EV on the list and that guy got it recently. It was probably the same one.

I'm one of the Leaf stats, as I began a lease on 7/28/13.

 

^^^Congrats on the Leaf, still have the 06 Prius?
I keep seeing a few Sparks around but I guess not the EV version...hopefully the EV version says so, so we can tell the difference

 

Wow, look at that .... both C-max hybrid and Fusion hybrid declining 4 months in a row (except for small uptick in 2nd month). Could it be the MPGs really arent' happening with these cars?

 

Yes. Still have the Prius.

I HIGHLY doubt the Sparks you've seen are the Spark EV. Per 2014 Chevy Spark EV | Electric Vehicle | Chevrolet, it's only available in CA and OR. You can tell if it's the EV via the tiny green EV badge in the back (see 2014 Chevy Spark EV | Exterior Photos | Chevrolet). I also didn't notice the EV charging door in the front until I went to http://www.chevrolet.com/spark-ev-electric-vehicle.html.

 

If they do a reasonable increase in MPGs but definitely make it a better all around car. If they try to max the MPGs while going smaller and chintzier .... poof, there go the sale, down, down.

 

OK, but I think sales are strongly controlled by advertising, dealers, pricing, incentives. When most of the commercials say 'best in class amenities and (31 to 36) MPG highway', the average Joe and Jane think, hmmm, pretty good.

Perhaps the majority of car buyers think they'll average near Highway MPG number by telling themselves, yeah, I drive freeway mostly.

Hybrids, plug-ins and diesels have 5% share and that's a start. There's an awful lot of hybrids on the market, but half to two thirds of them don't sell worth a darn.

Lot of people don't want to be in a smaller, lightweight car. They're afraid they'll be injured worse in an accident.

 

I think another want or need wins out over best possible fuel economy. How many sales have hybrid sedans lost because of the lack or limited fold down back seats, and smaller trunk? Plus, for those that want something besides a hatch/wagon or sedan, the hybrid selection is limited and/or pricey.

 

I would analyse the fusion as take rate compared to the Camry. The fusion hybrid has a 12.6% take rate for the hybrid, the camry has an 11.6% both are much improved from the previous generation. The fusion goes to 13.8% if you add the plug-in hybrid version. I would not think that mileage unless it is hurting the Camry hybrid more.

On the c-max you may have more of a point. Ford advertising talks more about the epa numbers, and the car is less aerodynamic, giving a bigger real world mpg disadvantage compared to cars ford is competing with. Add in the consumer reports hate campaign (also against the prius c) and some of these potential sales have likely shifted to prius liftback and prius v sales. Its a shame because different advertising even talking real world mpg, might have the cmax growing sales for hybrids more.

 

The bolded part is probably partly right. Even if they don't tell themselves that, that sure doesn't seem to keep them from comparing only highway EPA numbers and discounting/not even considering/excluding hybrids due to them being "not worth it". And, then there's the plethora of excuses (e.g. payback, hybrid FUD that always seems to come from non-hybrid owners, etc.)

 

Yes that's a subtle green logo on the Spark EV but I am quite sure I have not seen one back East. I was initially confused because the car was called "Spark" I was thinking they were all EV.

 

I think Trollbait made a good point. Some customers look in the trunk to see a big battery and / or no fold down rear seats, higher prices on hybrids and walk away. Plus a whole lot of people just don't like the Prius liftback looks and they never will.

I'm super picky about hybrids / alternative cars (duh), and there is not one hybrid or plug-in on the market that I'm really jazzed about (yeah, Model S is awesome, but out of my reach). I suppose the next car to get excited about would be the Accord Hybrid, but, it's not even here and has no history whatsover. The Sport Hybrid Honda drivetrains are totally new.

 

Ford hybrids seemed pretty cool until they named them Energi and made the Fusion look horribly ugly with its hexagon grille etc. Then there was the C-Max, a cool car with a lame name. They need to make a light truck like the Ranger again. Not everyone needs an F-series.

 

Have you seen this one before?

Google image search "prius truck conversion Pruck"

I can't post full links yet

 

I suspect that the naming of the ICEV Spark and Spark EV are intentional, to create confusion. I've seen some confusion on other forums where people had seen Sparks elsewhere in the world (IIRC), where either the Spark EV isn't even sold or before the EV version had even gone on sale.

 

Yep on the 1st two points. I can see why people don't like the look of the Prius. Even to this day, I admit that it's a bit of a odd/funny looking car.

As for the bolded part, for me, I've been following the Leaf for ages and finally, the stars lined up (finally working gain, short enough commute) that I began leasing one. Hopefully at the end of lease, there will be some other BEVs for similar lease prices or about as affordable as a Leaf but w/a bit more range.

A vehicle the size of the Leaf is fine... if it only had the range of the Rav4 EV. It doesn't need to have the Rav4 EV's performance or cargo capacity and I don't want to those kind of bucks.

I had little interest in CA compliance cars, esp. since none of them have a CHAdeMO port and are produced in such limited numbers (or so new), their reliability (and manufacturer's commitment) is unknown. Rav4 EV leasing prices previously SUCKED big time and I wasn't too keen on buying an EV in general. Rav4 EV purchasing deals were better but the reliability problems I've seen on myrav4ev.com (seems the Tesla bits are to blame) would give me pause. And, alas, it also has no CHAdeMO port.

There are numerous other reasons why I don't really want to buy a BEV, some of them have to do w/my personal circumstances (living/housing situation that might change, job and commute might change, etc.)

 

Interesting, and more information on how toyota could boost RAV4 EV sales if they wanted too. I knew toyota had a lukewarm commitment to the thing, but I had no idea that their were reliability problems until this post. I then found this

Will Toyota Cancel the RAV4 EV?

I can't believe they still have a software problem not realizing months may have over 30 days. That stuff needs to get fixed fast. We have some reasons Toyota is treating this thing like a red headed step child in the editorial piece..

And of course we have heard a lot of stuff from toyota really pushing fuel cells to comply with the California mandate.

Which makes you ask the question, with Toyota doing so much bad mouthing of BEVs (ford also was involved with the attempt to remove ZEV, but isn't as vocal) Are the RAV 4 EVs blown marketing and slow software fixes on purpose, to say hey we can't sell these beasts. The day Toyota introduced the RAV4 EV, with pricing, tesla stock dropped, since even that day it looked like Toyota didn't want to have the RAV4 EV (only 4 cities, high prices, really?).

Now I disagree with the editorial writier at inside evs, toyota needs to get with the BEV program, its rather inexpensive, and they appear to technologically be falling behind. Nissan/Renault spend $5B on their EV program, and every one agrees, even nissan exeutives that it was probably too much. BMW spent over $2B on their i progarm for BEV and PHEVs, much of it on carbon fiber manufacturing technology that they believe is a key technology for high end plug-in cars. Telsa of course, bet everything (which was less than these companies did) on BEVs. Ford, GM, and mercedes appear to be bringing bevs in on the cheap, but they all want to be in the game. It looks like a market that toyota needs to be in, perhaps not a leader, but not a detractor. They need to fix what ever problems there are with the car, and get some more dealers trained, provide decent lease rates, and at least get in the game.

 

The fusion is selling better than it ever did with the redesigned look, so car buyers and indeed the car mags disagree with you there. The car mags do say that interior volume and weight both take a hit in order to get the car to look like that.

The c-max is a european car, and got named to sell in europe. I don't quite get the naming convention, and seeing how much red ink ford has in europe, maybe they don't get the market either. Really the focus chassis is really good, but the rest of the c-max could be better for hybrid and phev. It seems the c-max sells well enough for ford to do a ground up hybrid/phev cute ute to really compete with the Rav 4 and CRV. It will take some R&D funds, but ford appears to be doing better.

I really don't think ford will be more profitable with a Ranger, the US rules make the car fairly expensive to make. Smaller trucks are profitable as long as there isn't a price war. Toyota makes money on the Tacoma, but that is mainly because of lack of competition. GM or Dodge will likely step back into the market, and this means ford would only be hurting profits on the f-series. Ford really needs to get its truck hybrid system done, so they can improve fuel economy. Ford does have smaller trucks outside the US, but they would need to modify them for US regulations. Here is WSJ on adding another smaller truck

Fuel Prices Spur Rethink of Small Pickups - WSJ.com

 

Take it up with the government and the EPA. For CAFE fuel requirements, the truck's footprint determines its target mpg. A smaller truck has a higher target. While it is lighter than its full size brethren, it will still have the poor aerodynamics. So, it is easier for the manufacturer to hit the target for the large truck than for the small one. Some are predicting that full size, regular cab pick ups might disappear because of this.

I doubt it. The Spark name goes back to 2005 on a second generation Daewoo. Interesting fact, LPG fueled versions were/are available in Italy and India.
Chevrolet Spark - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

With a Chevy dealer in the midwest saying they'll be getting Spark EVs, I'm hoping to see it get a national rollout.