Arctic sea ice set to hit record low

I have already crossed Florida off the states NOT to retire in!
Bring it on!

 

Hi Richard,

Sea ice has already displaced its mass and its melting has no direct effect on sea level. Chemistry points out that once water melts at 32F/0C as it warms up to 39F/2C, it becomes more dense, a smaller volume, and sinks relative to cooler water. But as the surface temperature increases above 39F/2C, it expands and this leads to higher sea levels. Sea salt also has an effect I've not tried to address.

One more interesting metric would be water temperature as a function of depth.

Bob Wilson

 

Right, the change in albedo is the impactful part.

 

That and the impact on major weather patterns. That much ice has had some major effects on weather patterns. It will be interesting to see what weather patterns do with much less (none even?) arctic ice.
Another interesting thing about this year as opposed to 2007, is that, other than the big arctic low earlier this month, the weather has been rather average in the arctic. Where in 2007, the weather was a big driver in melting arctic ice.

 

If the ocean currents change as a result, that may have the biggest negative impact.

 

Not just Ice on the Poles, but there's a bunch of Glacier Ice melting back on the various contenents. Less heat gets reflected back when there's less ice. So the temperature rise may be exponential, the more the ice melts.

 

Sea Ice News – Volume 3 Number 10 – ARCUS August Sea Ice Outlook posted, plus worries over Arctic storm breaking up sea ice | Watts Up With That?

 

currents? not likely; not at least until Greenland melts.

permafrost and shell ice melt are more related to artic melt, and as it melts it releases large quantities of methane

 

^sea currents are effected to a great extent by temperature. The change in sea temps in the high latitudes, enough to make the arctic ice free in the summer, changes the albedo significantly, bringing with it the real. Hence of significantly changing the temperature profile of arctic (and sub arctic) waters, the net effect of which has the potential to change all kinds of ocean currents.

What are the consequences for the Gulf Stream for example if Davis Strait is open all the way north every year, freezing later, breaking up earlier? I certainly don't know, but my guess is that the consequences are ikely to be real, perhaps speeding Greenland mainland ice melt?

Icarus

 

Hi Cyclo! good to see you...

OK they said in the news tonite, artic ice hit minimum despite temps not being warmer up there, so they said global warming is now so bad, that the ice is melting even when it is not warmer (as Mojo said a few posts back)??? Gimme a break...

...so I am thinking better interpretation is the ice is melting due to soot and particlulates from all the burning, and thus there is merit to the proposal that says let's reduce soot and methane (since +CO2 can't be stopped, sorry)

 

Since they are only talking about ice coverage, that is a 2-dimensional quantity. If the ice is thinner, it will melt with less heat.

It will be stopped. That is inevitable, the only question is when and how.

 

They are also affected by salinity,which melting ice changes.

 

I guess the good thing is the melting will at least stop at some point


SGH-I717R ? 2

 

Ice free seas, woohoo! sounds pretty cool.

The last couple of interglacials had much higher sea levels. We can look to the ice cores and see levels of co2. We suspect that changes in solar radiation ended those interglacials and caused the ice to grow again.

Every year ice freeses and melts. The amount flowing from the land ice into the sea is in a dynamic dance with the sea ice. I suppose if sea ice was growing it would mean a much worse message about sea level rise. We are already at a level of co2 that will likely repeat the items of the last couple of intergalacials. Stopping now is unlikely to stop sea level rise.

 

I recall we were discussing Antarctica and ice melting from below.
My comments about Antarctica have nothing to do with this thread.

 

...my bad sorry

 

Most of the last 10,000 years have been warmer than today.
If the Arctic ice melting is caused by higher air temps ,then the Arctic must have been melted for most of the past 10,000 years.
The last melting of arctic ice was in the 1920s.
So we can surmise its not that unusual.
Also the 150 year cycle of Greenlands brief surface melting,is recorded in the ice cores.
Wouldnt it be a possibility that the year we have melting of Greenland may coincide with sea ice loss?
BTW The 150 year cycle has nothing to do with CO2.
Also ,recently there was a major storm in the Arctic which destroyed enough ice to cause this new record.

 

The storm is a contributing factor. However, the arctic was on track to hit the record prior to the storm.
It really is a fascinating year for the ice. Seems the thickness has been drastically cut over the last decade. Lots of warm water melting from below looks to have been happening making the ice susceptible to being broken up more easily.
It really has been fascinating to watch.