Are car magazine editors idiots?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(snowdog650 @ Apr 5 2007, 09:47 AM) [snapback]418165[/snapback]</div>

Toyota creating jobs? You must mean Toyota moving jobs overseas. Toyota does not even have 40,000 employees in North America. Ford fired 35,000 lst year alone. You can buy toyota's spin about "job creation" or you could sit back and think about the facts. toyota is selling more and more cars in the United States and GM, ford and Chrysler keep laying people off. Does toyota hire a worker for every GM, Ford and Chrylser worker who loses a job? How about one for every two? how about one for every ten, maybe one for every twenty who lose there jobs. YOu can buy your prius because it is the most efficient vehicle on the road but I can't let you just buy your Prius and think you are helping Toyota create American jobs.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Apr 5 2007, 07:59 AM) [snapback]418178[/snapback]</div>

I have a job ... so I didn't buy the Prius to create American jobs. If Ford, GM, and Chrysler were capable of building a product that is worth buying, then people would buy them. But tey don't, so their sales are in the toilet. Where I work, if you do a crappy job, then you get fired. You are then replaced with someone who does a good job.

In the automotive industry, the Big 3 have done a crappy job for 30 years now. They are being replaced.

So don't come here trying to convince people that they are un-American because they buy an imported car. I have servied my country in the US Army and currently in federal law enforcement. Have you ever lifted a finger for your nation, other than to simply flip it off?

What if I aksed you where your computer was made? Where it's inner workings were created? Or your VCR? Television? Camera? What about the nalis that are holding your roof over your head? Where was the paper made that you use to wipe your nice person? Are you going to boycott all paper companies, because they are all moving to SE Asia and China, my friend.

And don't even think of drinking imported beer, wine, or vodka.

What kind of shoes do you wear? I wear $200 Allen Edmunds, because they are 100% made in the USA -- if you wear ANYTHING else, they were made using outsourced workers. I wear them with my $1100 Brooks Brothers suits, which are also 100% made in the USA --- all other suits use foreign workers.

Does that make up for the fact that I didn't support the corrupt UAW? Pretty please?

You should go work for GM. They haven't realized that we are in a global market, either.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(snowdog650 @ Apr 5 2007, 10:09 AM) [snapback]418181[/snapback]</div>

I applaud you for your service to your country. Thank you.

On a completely separtate issue though, you have your federal job. Let me ask you something? When all of these good jobs are in China, Japan and India etc who is going to be paying in to fund your federal pension? Maybe you should think about that before you think it is fine that all of these great jobs and money are being transferred overseas. I know you feel safe but you really need to think about those things because this country is heading for a wreck economically, which will effect everyone including federal and state governement employees and there pensions. Would anyone 30-40 years ago have thought for a second that GM and Ford pension plans might default? Not in a million years. think about it.

This is a global economy? We have a global dumping ground in the US. WE let everyone sell their products here but many countries won;t let us sell our products there. Even China(by the way the company you say hasn't realized they are in a global fight)GM is doing very well there even though it is mandated by the governement that they partner with Chinese industry.

Why do you buy Brooks brothers suits and Allen-Edmunds shoes because they are American and then buy a foreign car? How many suits and pairs of shoes to equal the money of one automobile?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Apr 5 2007, 08:17 AM) [snapback]418184[/snapback]</div>

Guess what, friend? Federal workers fund the federal pension, not taxpayers. Do you think that people work for the federal government to get rich? If I work 35 years for the feds, my pension is a whopping 30% of my top 3 years average. At today's rates, I would pay about $450 a month for my wonderful fed health coverage during retirement. How does that compare with UAW pensions?

The average UAW line worker gets paid more than a GS-15 government employee. That's high management in the government.

I pay for my pension, not you, friend. Learn the system before mocking it.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Apr 5 2007, 08:17 AM) [snapback]418184[/snapback]</div>

What about Social Security failing? No one ever thought that was possible, either.

I think the point we are BOTH trying to make on this is perhaps ALL pensions need to go by the wayside.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(snowdog650 @ Apr 5 2007, 10:25 AM) [snapback]418189[/snapback]</div>

If you leave your job today, do you get to take your pension with you? Is it completely funded by money taken out of your salary? Is it a separtate account in your name?

Is this NPR Article and interview incorrect?

Day to Day, June 6, 2006 · U.S. government workers may be in for an unpleasant surprise when they retire -- a new Standard & Poor's report finds that federal pension plans are underfunded by more than $4 trillion. Madeleine Brand discusses the story with Tess Vigeland of Marketplace.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5454161

Maybe the Japanese and Chinese will provide the difference in the pension checks.

 

Many of these car magazine writers have a unhealthy symbiotic relationship with the car manufacturers. They get expensive sports cars as loaners, tickets to exotic locations for test drives etc. On top of that, car enthousiasm is an emotional (boy racer) thing, it has nothing to do with a car being fit for use an an economical means of transport. The Prius does not fit in this picture for many reasons: wrong brand, looks, handling, power, unconventional technology.

Ever see a car journalist test how a car handles in congested traffic? It's a daily reality for most of us, it's one of the main reasons I selected the Prius but still they keep testing cars on high speed tracks and not in rush hour traffic. It would not be sexy.

 

living in chicago, cold weather. barely ever driving anywhere and when we do its short time. we've been avg 38mpg.
we're driving to louisville this weekend and i'm excited to see how she does.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Apr 4 2007, 09:42 PM) [snapback]417932[/snapback]</div>

Tell him to buy a mini cooper s it will drive much faster but hot-roding that little 1.6 liter supercharged engine around will get you about 15-18mpg but hey you will go fast. Or buy one of the Mercedes biturbo V12 that touts like 12mpg under normal driving. Hot-rod that around it has to be fun but forget about mpg it is more like gpm. My uncle has one of the AMG models and is lucky to see I think he said 5mpg.

Unless this person lives in an extremely hilly area or is flooring it all the time and then waiting until the last minute to stop (slamming on the brakes) and driving flat out max speed on the freeway I find <30mpg hard to believe.

 

WHen my girlfriend drives the Prius she gets just over 40MPG. Her drivign style is pretty much get up and go, don't pay attention to speed on the highway 80-90 is good for the most part, and wait till the last second to brake. Added to that is the fact that she doesn't keep the speed or throttle consistent while driving even on the highway. All of those adds up to poor fuel economy, yet she still beats 40MPG. So I guess I find it hard to believ anybody can actually get much less than 40MPG unless they are really racing the Prius.

We od have quite a number of hills where we drrive, but it rarely would get below the 30s in the winter.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Apr 5 2007, 07:59 AM) [snapback]418178[/snapback]</div>

Oh the goold ol' AMerican jobs nonsense, by a company that is loosingmarket share due to poor management for the last few decades.

You complain about the Toyota job creation spin, yet you buy the GM North American job spin.

The US IS NOT North America!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So let GM and Ford list the jobs and production in the US only, seperate Canada and Mexico out. GM moved production there, because it is cheaper for them, they don't care about the US welfare, only the money they canmake in the US. Toyota moved production to the US and is expanding in the US, because it is cheaper for them.

On that note, do you buy Dell computers as an example, where do they move their jobs, where do they make their stuff?

Take up goverment regulation issues in regards to fair trade with the goverment, not companies. AFAIK one of the biggest contributors to the US trade deficiet is OIL!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bulldog @ Apr 5 2007, 03:54 PM) [snapback]418371[/snapback]</div>

Wonder if she could eek out anything close to that in a f150 driving like that. Ooooo maybe she would do better in a Hummer I heard those were more economical than the prius at least I see it explained on this forum over and over.

Dodge has their 4 cylinder engines manufactured in brazil. Chevy has plants in Mexico because labor is cheaper and the have no environmental regulations. And yes GM did say in the late 90s that the environmental regulations were costing them to much money so they up and moved to Mexico. Yeah they are real eco friendly. Parts of the Chevy trucks are assembled in Asia for pennies a day probably with child labor.

So every time I see some redneck spit out some tobacco juice on the ground, smack the hood of his truck and say “hey buy American like good ol Bessie here.†I laugh and say “yeah echo in Mexico buddyâ€. They usually look at me like I am some kind of nut job. One guy said “no dude your car was made in Japan by some (insert racial slur).†Some people are just to stupid for their own good.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Apr 5 2007, 11:32 AM) [snapback]418154[/snapback]</div>

Sure, and 1,550 posts later you are still here posting your reminders. Yet how many have you convinced with your rhetoric?

Others have already brought up the outsourcing of carmaking to other countries by GM (Currently 19 models are made in another country). Just to save those arguing with him some time, malorn's response will be "Yea but when you buy GM your money stays in the US and when you buy Toyota your money goes to Japan." And apparently where it is constructed doesn't matter.

 

Not all car magazine editors are idiots. After all, Motor Trend did name the Prius 2004 Car of the Year.

 

Hey malorn
Or do you ingnore stuff like this.
Gm isn’t the worls best company and its not the savior of America.


Gm creating American er Chinese jobs http://www.greencarcongress.com/2007/04/gm...omment-65490200
Lutz said that all of the minicars would get in the high 40 or 50 mpg fuel economy range, could be priced starting at $10,000 and could be built in either China or India. The vehicles currently are not being designed to meet US safety requirements.

http://priuschat.com/Boo-Hoo-GM-crying-abo...sal-t31489.html

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Apr 5 2007, 07:59 AM) [snapback]418178[/snapback]</div>

The company who makes the better product wins. If GM, Ford, and Chrysler are losing money and laying people off, it's because they make a product nobody wants. American car companies are so behind the curve it's sad. I'm sorry people are getting laid off, and truth be told, if GM et al continue to make crappy products, they should go out of business. There is no reason to support bad management creating bad products simply because it creates jobs -- what kind of reward is that?

The company with the better product wins, period. It's sad that we can't compete adequately in a global market, but ultimately it's our own fault for not thinking ahead. I applaud Toyota for creating a fantastic product built for socially responsible people. GM can continue cranking out gas guzzling Hummers, Suburbans, Grand Canyons or whatever the heck they're calling them now -- bigger and faster = better is the mantra of the American car company, but the consumer mindset is shifting away from that. As global warming becomes an indisputable fact put in front of every American, companies like Toyota will benefit.

The problem with American companies is that they never NEVER learn from past mistakes. What happened during the 1970s gas crisis? That marked the rise of smaller, more efficient Japanese cars to replace domestic gas guzzling models. History is again repeating itself, yet Toyota has kept ahead and anticipated the market. American companies just don't get it, and never will.

 

"I don't want anything from you. I am just here to remind some of you on occasion that Toyota is not an American company and they are assisting in the transfer of American jobs overseas"

Malorn - Go suck a Nut.

If American companies started making better cars I'd buy from them.

 

Bob Lutz, head of GM, had this to say about the recent Supreme Court ruling, which stated that the EPA does have the authority to regulate CO2 emissions from cars and trucks:

“All of us standing here right now — anybody who exhales is polluting like mad,†Mr… Lutz said. “If we have CO2 limits, I think we should all contribute, and we’re all going to have to train ourselves to breathe fewer times per minute.â€

This is from the genius running GM. It's no wonder there is nothing from GM to compete with the Prius.

What a maroon...

Harry

 

What's more socially responsible-

Supporting in some small financial manner an American company like GM by buying their product,

Or helping to preserve the environment by driving a Prius?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Earthling @ Apr 8 2007, 11:40 AM) [snapback]419797[/snapback]</div>

Are you serious? Did he actually say that? Jeez, what a putz (hey, that rhymes with "Lutz"!)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(GM VP Bob Lutz @ Apr 8 2007, 10:40 AM) [snapback]419797[/snapback]</div>

Mr. Lutz - it's not easy, but I'm trying to hold my breath more often.

BTW, Do you really need a 6,000-pound vehicle to move a single 200-pound butt around?

 

I wonder if all GM vehicles will now have the fan permanently set on recirc so that they can claim reduced CO2 emissions? :lol: