Are Fossil Fools Trying to Disrupt Battery Market?

China sees biggest growth in energy and coal use since 2011 | Reuters

Despite Pledges to Cut Emissions, China Goes on a Coal Spree - Yale E360

There’s talk, and then there is action.
Of course…the CCP doesn’t HAVE a Ministry of Truth…..THEY have the MSS.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministry_of_State_Security_(China)

The OP used the phrase “fossil fools” which sort of sets the tone for the discussion and I believe that THAT PARTICULAR WORD is an interesting one to use in this context.
In some circles a FOOL is a person who is “destitute of reason, or the common powers of understanding.”
Or, more simply….An idiot.
However (comma!) the term FOOL is ALSO used, especially in religion, to describe a wicked or depraved person; one who acts contrary to sound wisdom in his moral deportment; one who follows his or her own inclinations, who prefers trifling and temporary pleasures to the service of a higher calling.

Yep.
I INTERESTING word choice.

CHINA is going to shape the future of the planet….or at least that’s their stated goal.
I do not really have a problem with that, since those of us outside the Middle Kingdom have already had “our century.”
THIS is why we should use the last vestiges of our remaining world influence to BOTH set a good example through our own actions AND properly rebuke nations that lean the other way - ESPECIALLY those nations responsible for more than half of the anthropogenic carbon throughput.

REMEMBER that the freedom to call balls and strikes AS YOU SEE THEM is fairly important.
Important enough to fight for at times…..


BIG tent.

 

Nickel costs more than lithium, and I think a NiMH cell uses more.
Then main thing is the capacity. To have the same usable capacity in the hybrid, the NiMH pack is around 50% larger.

BASF was looking into improving NiMH back when the large format patents started expiring. Reports from 2015 were that they were hoping to reach $146/kWh. Didn't find anything recent about whether they did so in a quick search. Average li-ion prices are at $158/kWh now. Could be lower. Even at same cost, a Toyota NiMH pack is 1.5 kWh to their Li-ion 1kWh one in hybrids
How much do lithium-ion batteries cost? Price

Toyota has cost advantage vs. the others in regards to NiMH, because of their past investment into the supply chain, but that only goes so far when multiple companies are pushing to lower Li-ion. The bipolar packs will save costs in the long run, but I haven't heard of that technology not being suitable for L-ion.

 

man O man @PriusCamper you be seriously thinkin bout mil history and stuff.

 

Generally, there are many DIFF levels of restrictions within the mil establishment including (but not limited to) rank and classification. Not understanding the differences in those levels can lead to some REALLY silly discourse.

 

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_car_use_by_country


Way to go China!

As for Chinese coal, my understanding is they use: Supercritical coal plant - Energy Education

These plants are the standard for new coal power plants, as their efficiencies can reach around 44%, compared to older coal power plants that operate around 33%. Even higher pressure and temperature power plants are under research and development, known as ultra-supercritical, potentially reaching an efficiency of near 50%.[4]

Improved efficiency corresponds to fewer greenhouse gas emissions, as well as pollutants like NOx, SOx, and particulate matter which all cause adverse health effects. A supercritical coal plant (as opposed to a traditional coal plant) will decrease waste heat produced by 25%, and cut pollution and CO2 by roughly the same amount.[4]​

As long as maximum efficiency is used, I don't get too worried about coal power. In the meanwhile, building out renewable wind and solar coupled with utility grade, battery storage makes a lot of sense.

Bob Wilson

 

I don't know how to know what fraction of China's coal energy comes from supercritical technology. It may be told somewhere when the new construction started using that. Presume that all newer ones are. I understand that date of construction and nameplate capacity data are available. So, an estimate could be developed.

But it is certainly not the case that all coal->electricity in China is done via supercritical. None around Kunming is, for example.

==
Link in #28 indicates CO2 and (other) pollutants are reduced by supercritical. I think that needs a few more words, specifically "per unit of electrical power produced". I'm not aware that they 'burn' more cleanly, rather that they 'steam' at higher pressures.

==
One stimulus for electric vehicle adoption in China is that in the largest cities, there are (multi-year) waiting lists for getting vehicle plates. For petrol or diesel vehicles. No waiting lists if buying electric. So if one wants a new vehicle now, EV is often the way. Not sure this bit of 'social engineering' is widely known.

Surely widely known is that a lot of in-city transportation happens on electric 2 wheelers. Some of which rent for about USD$ 0.4 per hour. The latter are E bikes and small, and have lithium batteries. Most of the 'owned' electric 2-wheel fleet still uses lead-acid batteries.

 

This thread is really about how lithium in batteries 'drives' transportation, Nickel also, but as that mostly goes into stainless steel production, we might set it aside.

I am interested in future global personal transportation. Much of that is based on 'lithium cars' like Tesla, Bolt, BYD etc. Each unit has several kilograms of lithium in the build, and covers some fraction of personal transportation needs. Some of that will be based on 'lithium scooters' with maybe 1 kg of lithium, and only doing local missions. We understand that lithium seems scarce and is expensive, so, how can it optimally be used?

Future global personal transportation needs to increase, especially in less-rich areas. What mix )where) of large long-range vehicles and small short-range vehicles can accomplish goals and best allocate scarce lithium? There are scientific journals hoping to publish your model results about that, and it might be a good thing to know anyway.

 

I first learned about Supercritical coal plants reading about China adding coal plants. There was no discussion about retiring the less efficient plants but from a kWh/coal tonnage, it makes economic sense to replace or upgrade.

As for free and available EV tags, makes sense. Given the abysmal air quality in some cities, EVs are a way to improve the quality and reduce associated health costs.

Bob Wilson

 

I invested in HPQ Silicon because they're coming out with a new technology to make batteries cheaper to produce and more environmentally friendly.