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Atrial Fibrillation surprise

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by bwilson4web, Nov 7, 2013.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Heart disease and disorders come in many different forms but this is what happened to me. The funny thing about atrial fibrillation / cardiac arrhythmia is it can have no symptoms. My new cardiologists says there are three groups: (1) those without symptom, (2) those with mild, and (3) those who have severe symptoms. I was in the middle group, mild, with nothing that really told me there was a problem. She also said it comes with age more than anything else. So this is how it became known.

    * * * * *

    Friday I noticed frequent urination, low flow, dark color but nothing out of the ordinary. Since my doctor suggested pre-diabetes (I am too fat), I bought a glucose meter and started testing. Sure enough I’m in the between range, more than normal but less than full. So I had a big meal, part of establishing a baseline, and headed home to start fasting (i.e., water, coffee, tea, broths, one small lemon per day.)

    Saturday, I still had short urinations but ending with pain. I noticed a little red seepage and by Saturday afternoon, called my physcian’s office. The on-call doctor diagnosed a bladder infection and ordered Cirpio, 500 mg, twice a data, a strong antibiotic. I started it Saturday at 6 PM.

    Well that night was pretty rough but by morning, the pain seemed less. Then 2:00 PM Sunday afternoon, I passed a small pea-sized kidney stone. Full urine flow returned, still streaks of pink and a little pain but I was on the mend. I was glad to have the antibiotic since you don’t want any secondary problems.

    When you take an antibiotic, you should complete all days of the full protocol, even after the symptoms abate. Otherwise, slightly resistant bugs might survive and become a problem. So I continued the twice a day, 6 and 6 and was at work on Monday. Urine flow was normal and no pain. But late Monday afternoon, I noticed the right side of my tongue felt ‘funny.’

    I go home, fix dinner, and take a nap. When I got up around 10:30 PM, the left side of my tongue was swollen. So we watched TV and around 2:00 AM I went to bed only to discover I could not swallow without risking it going down the windpipe. . . . Not Good.

    I told Holly what was going on; printed off a copy of my fasting log that included my prescription usage, and; drove to the Huntsville Hospital ER expecting a standard drug reaction protocol. The waiting room was empty and when they heard me talk and stick out my tongue, well they pretty well marched me into a treatment room. They hooked up the heart monitor, blood pressure, oxygen sensors and blood pressure machine (the machine that goes 'ping'.) Another nurse put an IV in my dominant, right hand, because I wasn't quick enough to get her to put it in my left hand (need a tattoo there.) The doc came in, confirmed the drug reaction diagnosis and scheduled a steroid shot in the butt, and via the IV, pepcid and benadryl. In a semi-upright position, I was watching the nurse admin the last of the benadryl when my eye sight became a TV screen full of static.

    When I came to, I was flat on my back and five faces were looking at me and someone was calling my name. They said my heart stopped for six seconds, beat once, and stopped again for six seconds before it resumed beating. I had atrial fibrillation and this time the ordinary drugs treating the allergic reaction and stress briefly stopped my heart.

    Atrial fibrillation basically is the heart not beating with coordinated pulses but a lot of small disconnect pulses. Many folks are asymptomatic and my only symptom was getting tired and taking a nap when I first got home. Depending upon severity, people can go years without symptoms and I had history including a successful heart stress test three years ago and annual physicals. So the original problem was successfully treated, my tongue got back to normal but I was sent up to the heart wing of Huntsville hospital after 6:00 AM.

    They peeked and prodded and tested and I had a bag of saline (probably to keep me from sneaking out.) So Tuesday afternoon, they tried to put an IV in my forearm, better to handle motion as I moved about. The senior expert came in with a trainee and I agreed to be 'the pin cushion' and told them about my needle phobia. Well the little girl tried but the more she worked, the more my needle phobia came on. But I forgot about the heart monitor I was wearing as I was going into shock. Suddenly instead of three of us in the room, there were six and more coming! Going into 'shock' on a heart ward attracted a lot of attention.

    That afternoon, I asked and got a copy of my current EKG and borrowed a stethoscope to hear my heart. I wanted to know what the syndrome sounded like. I'm not trained but I could hear the upper chambers working hard and the quieter thruttering of the other chambers. Taking a breath really brought out the difference.

    Treatment was the next day. I had a ‘chemical’ stress test with an isotope to check for heart blood flow . . . everything is good with no blockages. Then they put me under to check for blood clots and finding none, used a defibrillator to shock my heart back into coordinated beating. It took three zaps but it worked (probably all that Prius EMI.)

    The doctor discussed my follow-up meds and was going to release me at 7:00 PM. I asked if it could be 5:00 PM so a co-worker could pick me up after work and he agreed. The saline bag was disconnected (yes!) but I was still hooked up the wireless, heart telemetry unit.

    I checked in the desk and did 30 minutes of power walk . . . instrumented. A heart ward often looks like a geriatric center and it was unusual for them to see a patient power walking the hall. Still, I was able to get both a resting and active EKG sheets. Borrowing a stethoscope, the heart sounded consistent with and without taking a breath.

    As for the other health issues, my former blood pressure drug and Ciprio are on my list of allergies. They continued the steroid treatment even though the initial symptom, swollen tongue was gone. I've got a new blood pressure med and it was way more effective than the old one . . . another symptom of a pending drug allergy.

    As for pre-diabetic, the blood test, HbA1c provides an average glucose index and at 6.1, just over the threshold 6.0. So I'm close enough to be an exercise and diet controlled diabetic. In contrast, the hospital glucose meter kept showing some moderately high values and they offered insulin shots which I declined.

    I had continued my fasting started on Friday evening and did not trust these high levels because I had continued my fasting diet. Then I learned from a nurse and confirmed by the physician that steroids can cause a temporary, high glucose reading. BTW, the 'clear liquid' hospital diet tastes a lot better than their standard fare . . . ask for it.

    * * * * *

    So it took two days of an unexpected hospital stay. Lesson's learned:
    • If you are headed to the ER and have time - take a goodie bag with clean underwear, personal razor, and independent Internet access (don't trust the hospital 'public' WiFi.)
    • Take the minimum wallet contents and leave the rest at home - my checkout was delayed an hour because security was holding my wallet. We walked to their office and picked it up.
    • Negotiate your treatment - I knew I was fasting and pre-hospitalization testing showed I was getting back to normal glucose readings. Over treatment can be as bad.
    • Use it as a personal training session - I borrowed a stethoscope and heard my heart when it was bad and later when it was good. Ask and often the staff will share insights we can use to improve our own, health monitoring.
    • Tell jokes and treat everyone with respect - even if they seem a little off, everyone loves a laugh, and though you might be hurtin', a little humor can take off the edge. Send them a thank you note . . . you may see them again.
    Bob Wilson

    ps. I'll post more technical details later.
     
  2. JMD

    JMD 2012 Prius 4 Solar Roof

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    Wow what a whirlwind. Get well
     
  3. mojo

    mojo Senior Member

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    You beat the reaper.

    You're better off without the Cipro.
    That stuff is known to cause achilles tendon ruptures and the FDA issued a warning.
    Im surprised MDs still prescribe it when there are alternatives.
    Because of the FDA warning those crippled by the drug cant win a lawsuit.
     
  4. jdcollins5

    jdcollins5 Senior Member

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    Glad to hear you are on the mend Bob. Thanks for all of the technical details. All of us in your age bracket need to heed these warning signs.

    I had a good friend that went in for some routine dental work a couple of weeks ago and was administered anisthesia (sp?). He is in the second group that you list above with mild atrial fibrillation. He woke up in the hospital Cardiac Care unit and spent a couple of days getting monitored and stabilized.

    So, we all need to be aware of these conditions.

    Thanks again.
     
  5. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    Glad to hear you're getting better, Bob.

    I had atrial fibrillation a few years ago. In my case it consisted of the atria quivering, rather than beating properly. Then the ventricles try to keep up but cannot. The result is an irregular tachycardia and significantly reduced blood flow. It felt like a fluttering in my chest, not painful but extremely uncomfortable and disturbing. I could not jog while it was happening. I could walk uphill, but was much slower than normal. Other than caffeine, I never could identify any triggers, and it would start and stop spontaneously, lasting anywhere from a few seconds to a few hours. Through a stethoscope it sounded like a fast irregular thump-thump-thump with irregular pauses of a second or so, and distinctly without the normal paired ta-dum, ta-dum, ta-dum of normal atrial followed by ventricular contraction. A confusing factor was that I also had premature atrial contractions, which also felt like a flutter in my chest and appeared to be missed beats, but which still have the paired ta-dum, but with pauses between one ta-dum and the next.

    I still have the premature atrial contractions, which are not a health concern, though they feel creepy. But my atrial fibrillation was cured by a pulmonary vein ablation, in which they thread several catheters into the heart through veins from various points in the body, and burn circles around the spots where the pulmonary veins enter the heart. When those burns form scar tissue it blocks the electrical signals which originate in the pulmonary veins for reasons unknown, and which are the cause of some forms of a-fib.

    If I'm having PACs, they will typically abate a few minutes into exercise, though they do not disappear completely. The a-fib would not improve at all with exercise, and instead greatly limited the intensity of exercise I could do.
     
  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    thanks for the good advice , as usual.:) all the best in your recovery!(y)
     
  7. Former Member 68813

    Former Member 68813 Senior Member

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    Thanks, it answers the question I posed in the other thread of yours:

    I'm glad you are better now. As for the prediabetes, low carb diet is the way to go. You may want to reads some books by dr Bernstein. He was electric engineer like yourself, discovered how to cure diabetes by diet alone (he had diabetes himself) and went to medical school to spread the good news. Guess what, the medical establishment treats him like a hack and American Diabetes Association to this day tells people to do low fat diet (=high carb diet) and load them with insulin that is killing them.

    Good luck!

    Edit: more info on Bernstein: Richard K. Bernstein - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
  8. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    It always amuses me when people choose to believe the outsider who "discovers" a miracle cure with no prior knowledge of the subject, over the consensus of scientists who base their conclusions on the evidence presented in peer-reviewed journals.
     
  9. Former Member 68813

    Former Member 68813 Senior Member

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    You simply don't have insights how science works. Sometimes it's just politics.

    Notable cases in point:
    Copernicus only published his work only after his death as he knew it would not be received well.
    Galileo had to backpedal his discoveries.
    Tesla was called a mad man and he didn't get the credit for discovery of radio communication.
    Einstein couldn't get an university job and settled as a clerk.
    Marshall+Warren (rediscovered H pylori in ulcer disease and got Nobel price later) had his first papers all rejected as the editors thought the claims were ridiculous.
    McCully who discovered that homocysteine rather than cholesterol causes atherosclerosis was fired from his job at Harvard.
    Etc, etc.

    Science has a pattern of rejecting anything that doesn't confirm to dogma, and later slowly accepting it. This is how humans work, and science is no different.

    As for the consensus based on evidence, lots of dogmas in medicine is based on traditions before evidence-based approach was fashionable.

    How do I know? I'm a scientist and professor of medicine myself.
     
  10. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    This is what I noticed. When the local glucose meter said I needed insulin, they were quite willing to shoot me up. But I had been fasting over four days and been tracking my levels before going in. It made no sense until the nurse remembers steroids can shift the readings.

    Now I just checked and it appears steroid use can trigger a diabetes incident:
    So the high levels were accurate but only because the steroid was triggering glucose production, a temporary condition.

    Bob Wilson
     
  11. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

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    Hang in there, Bob. There's a lot of life left in you yet. Take care.
     
  12. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    A couple of observations:

    ....There's NO SUCH THING as a small pea-sized kidney stone. :)
    They're all HUGE in my book.

    ....I'm glad that you got the machine that goes "ping!" That more than anything else probably saved your life.

    ...They did bolt an IV to you to keep you from leaving, and I feel your pain with the needles. I always wind up with the trainees too....but I guess they need to start on somebody. ;)


    Good Luck!
     
  13. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    Copernicus and Galileo were not persecuted by the scientific establishment. They were persecuted by the Church, which was in the habit of torturing and murdering and burning to death people who refused to kowtow to their own narrow and very unscientific superstitious dogma.

    It boggles the mind that a lot of people believe that doctors are all in some grand conspiracy to keep us all sick, and we can only save ourselves by following this or that quack. The belief that the maverick is always right, and that the "establishment" is always wrong. It is easy, of course, to cherry-pick examples where a revolutionary new idea turned out to be right. But when you back up and view the whole picture, of the ten thousand mavericks that turned out to be crackpots for every one maverick that turned out to be right, you can realize that following the maverick gives you one chance in ten thousand of getting a legitimate treatment, while following the best evidence-based consensus gives you 9,999 chances out of ten thousand.
     
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  14. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    Now you see what you started Bob? :eek:
     
  15. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    here we go again. funny how some people can't resist derailing a thread for their own selfish reasons.
     
  16. Former Member 68813

    Former Member 68813 Senior Member

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    I didn't say that. However, the truth is, the prerogative for institutional medicine and pharma industry is to make money. That creates some conflict of interests to put it mildly.

    Case in point: OP. He suffered a series of unfortunate drug reactions that were triggered by an unnecessary treatment and he almost died in the process. His insurance was billed for several thousands dollars. His doctors are happy. They "saved" him and made some nice chunk of change.

    You clearly overestimate the success rate of modern medicine.

    Are you aware of this?

    Iatrogenesis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
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  17. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    You mean like promoting unproven treatments?

    The human body is fallible, and in the end, its failure is inevitable. It is a fallacy to say that because doctors cannot fix everything remedies based on make-believe are the answer. Doctors and "big pharma" are accused of being unconcerned with patients' welfare because they are businesses that make money. But the purveyors of "alternative" treatments are also in it to make money, only there is no oversight to assure safety, efficacy, or even accuracy of contents of these remedies. Recent analyses of alternative remedies have shown that most of them do not even contain what they claim.
     
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  18. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    :rolleyes:
    Well...if you can't beat them....
    Isn't the ACA supposed to fix all of this????? :D

    Hmmm.....Lemme see.....
    .
    Employing Grenades.
    Use the following procedures:
    (1) Observe the target to mentally establish the distance between the throwing
    position and the target area. In observing the target, minimize exposure time to the enemy(no more than 3 seconds).
    (2) Grip the hand grenade in the throwing hand.
    (3) Grasp the pull ring with the index or middle finger of the nonthrowing hand.
    Remove the safety pin with a pulling and twisting motion. If the tactical situation permits,observe the safety pin’s removal.
    (4) Look at the target and throw the grenade usingthe overhand method so that the grenade arcs, landing on or near the target.
    (5) Allow the motion of the throwing arm to continue naturally once the grenade is
    released. This follow-through improves distance and accuracy and lessens the strain on the throwing arm......

     
  19. FL_Prius_Driver

    FL_Prius_Driver Senior Member

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    There is one aspect of Bob's detailed story that I was looking for. Did you have a doctor overseeing everything? It sounds like you were passed between different doctors with each one having their own idea of what drugs/treatment should apply. A whole bunch of different factors were occurring at the time (infection, fasting, drug reactions, etc.) that certainly might have benefitted having someone aware of the big picture.
     
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  20. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Hind-sight is 20/20 but in real-time, we have a too brief period of time to observe before making a judgement call. Under time pressure, I don't fault mistakes as much as happy how well everyone recovered. So let's keep things in perspective:
    • kidney stone vs bladder infection - I knew the kidney stone symptoms and accurately told the on-call physician my symptoms. Other than possibly an analgesic, there wasn't much she could do and the antibiotic could provide some protection . . . and she might have been right.
    • drug reaction - once the allergy reaction occurs, I might have 'home treated' by taking some OTC benadryl but what if it had triggered the heat stoppages while I was in bed instead of the ER?
    • atrial fibrillation - in theory, someone might have seen it on the ER heart monitor but they were distracted by the visibly swollen tongue. I had no heart symptoms. But what would have been the alternative? Not treat the allergy reaction because it might trigger a heart stoppage?
    • insulin and steroid diabetes - I had the presence of mind to turn down an insulin shot knowing I had not broken my fasting. Had I eaten anything, I might of agreed.
    I'm glad a potentially hazardous syndrome has been identified and corrected (for now.) But as much as we respect skilled professionals, we also need to use our own understanding to negotiate a better plan when based upon relevant observations and shared.

    Bob Wilson
     
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