Featured August EV Sales

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by Team ChargePoint, Sep 13, 2018.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web i3 and Prime

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    That is a risk, depending on a not-a-factory battery supplier.

    Bob Wilson
     
  2. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    I saw an Ioniq down in Sacramento area on the road. Nice car... Also saw a Kia plugin, a bit goofy looking, but nice to see. Also an energy consultant in Olympia just bought one of those Kia's and he wrote up his 1,000 mile report. If anyone wants to see it I could share it with you.
     
  3. iplug

    iplug Senior Member

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    Hybrid, PHEV, or BEV? I just saw another hybrid a few minutes ago, but so far only one PHEV (and no BEV) in the Sacramento area since they have been "available".
     
  4. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    It was black, no plates yet, pretty sure there was no exhaust pipe and no radiator... It's kinda exciting to see the transition finally starting to happen! So many options for not having to go to the gas station hardly ever. And compared to the leaded gas of the 70's that stunk up everything, we've come a long way. Or course now that the whole state of California has heated up and every year is the biggest wildfire season ever, it's kinda seems like we're way too late. So much smoke everywhere two summer's in a row. Tens of thousands of homes lost and you can barely buy homeowner's insurance anymore. These wildfires are so pervasive the last two years... If this is the new normal we've got way bigger problems then accelerating the transition to EV.
     
  5. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    For an article posted here, having battery supply in house may not have helped in this situation. If the manufacturer only expected to sell a few plug ins, set up production for that number, and then got orders for many more cars, they would still be scrambling to ramp up production. An in house battery supply would protect them from a competitor out bidding them for the batteries, but not a battery company outbidding them for raw materials.

    That said, the major plug in companies will have an in house battery supply in the future. Not doing so would be like Toyota or GM not making their own engines today.
     
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  6. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    Toyota and Tesla have been working with Panasonic for a long time... They're many, many years ahead of other auto makers who are still finding their way when it comes to scaling up. The real solution to this challenge is stripping billions in subsidies from fossil fuel industry and creating a whole new raft of battery and solar subsidies, as well as major incentives to decentralize our power grid. Until that happens Tesla and Toyota will have the upper hand on mass production that rapidly scales up for many years to come.
     
  7. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    w/ the lion's share of legislators' election/re-election war-chests substantially funded by big oil - good luck with that.
    .
     
  8. RCO

    RCO Senior Member

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    For all the hype about the Leaf's lack of battery cooling, as far as I'm aware there are precious few rejections or battery replacements. At least on the RHS of the pond.
     
  9. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Well of COURSE !! Mr Google says average July temperature in the UK is below 71° ... that's even below efficient operational temp's of the Leaf. But here in So Cal? We're warmer than that, on many January day times. I guess Leaf owner could all move to the Uk .... or Seattle .... or Vancouver

    Of course - then, your winter Temps mean your range will drop to maybe 45 miles or less - especially once your pack DOES deteriate
     
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  10. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Nissan switched chemistries half way through the first generation because of the beating the batteries were taking in the US Southwest. The new packs are known as lizard packs.
     
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  11. iplug

    iplug Senior Member

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    The 24kWh lizard packs held up substantially better than pre-lizard. But then the 30kWh packs came out in 2016 and we presumed the lizard fixes would still apply, but they didn’t. We had our leased Leaf battery replaced in under 2 years from accelerated degradation. Many others had and are having the same fate in warmer climates.

    It’s a bit early to tell on the 40 kWh 2018 kWh Leaf batteries. The 2019 ~60 kWh batteries reported out in ~March 2019 will have active battery thermal management and will come from LG who already has established low battery degradation.
     
  12. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    How hard is it to hook the air conditioner up to the Battery pack? Seems like a no-brainer? What the heck is Nissan thinking?
     
  13. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    That's been The $64,000 Question now - for years.
    .
     
  14. markabele

    markabele Senior Member

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    60 kWh packs seem to have been pushed a bit. 2019 packs will be the same as 2018, at least for now.
     
  15. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Originally, they were trying to keep costs down. After their experience with the gen1, I don't see why they continued on this path. Needed to keep the MSRP under $30k.
     
  16. iplug

    iplug Senior Member

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    Right, 2019 versions for now just 40 kWh until then.
     
  17. iplug

    iplug Senior Member

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    As Trollbait mentioned, everything at a price. A lot of folks are rightly peeved by the early battery degradation of the Leaf. We are among the much less bothered crowd because the Leaf is one of the most affordable BEVs per kWh and because of the Nissan 8 year battery warranty and State required battery warranty standards. So largely a nonissue for us.

    Unlike ICE tech, battery tech is changing fast enough that by the time the battery warranty leaves one naked, battery tech has made huge strides. It is then well worth it to take your money saved and invested and get the next latest and greatest BEV. So we don't see this as planned obsolescence, but tech advancement. Not sure that is Nissan's real strategy or not, but it works for lots of people.
     
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  18. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    While this is true, the Leaf is the third least expensive by kWh, it seemingly has little to do with their passive battery management system.
    The least expensive EV per/kWh is the long range Model 3. The number two spot is currently occupied by the Bolt. Both of which have active liquid cooling battery management systems.
    The Leaf is the least expensive car of those, however not when measured by kWh.

    For many people this isn’t an issue, but given the advantages, especially in hot climates and DC charging, I am quite surprised it isn’t available yet.
     
  19. iplug

    iplug Senior Member

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    Perhaps 3rd by MSRP, but we can not go by that. It is probably still 1st by real, out the door price.

    The Leaf is usually had for many thousands off MSRP (aside from government incentives).

    The 75 kWh Tesla Model 3 LR and 40 kWh 2018 Leaf, for now both get the 7.5k federal tax credit and depending on ones State a credit there too. But the 40kWh 2018 Leaf currently gets at least $4k off MRSP, and many others get a significant amount beyond that.

    I am not familiar with the Bolt incentives, so possible there, but a 2018 Leaf can be had for well under $20k with all incentives.

    There is a price thread at mynissanleaf.com for final prices paid with details.

    A very recent Nissan Leaf offer:
    -4000 dealer discount
    -2000 Nissan discount
    -2000 Loyalty discount
     
    #39 iplug, Sep 18, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2018
  20. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    in massachusetts:

    bolt lt = $22,500.

    leaf s = $15,300.

    model 3 = $$$$$$$
     
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