back again, with a 3190

Just thought I'd throw this out. I haven't checked anything on the car yet. My truck got stolen a couple of weeks ago from a hotel parking lot in Kansas City and I lost all my tools and my ScanGauge. Lost my ability to earn a living as well. I'm in a tough spot.

So, I still have 6 Gen1s, two are parts cars and I have 2 running. But, I have one of the running cars sold tomorrow, so with no truck and 1 car left, now that car lit up this morning. It's the 2003. I had been driving the other one because this one is losing coolant. I can't see any drips underneath and don't know what that problem is, but that's not the issue today.

So, after sitting for a few weeks, I've cranked it up last week for the first time. The 12v was dead, so I bought another. However, I only have it sitting in the trunk with jumper cables to the bad battery. Just lazy. I don't think that could be my problem, although I haven't popped the trunk to see. When the cables came off the other day, the car, of course, wouldn't even start. Today, after my orange lights came on, I turned off and it restarted, so I assume the battery is connected.

When I first started driving it again, I was tickled at how smoothly it ran, and its power. Even punched it a few times out of the traffic light because its acceleration is so fun. But, late yesterday/this morning, it didn't seem quite as powerful. And, the MPG is a bit low - 37 over 400 miles of city driving.

Took the dog to the park this morning and when I started it back up, it was shuddering bad. I turned it off, tried again, and same thing, then the lights all came on and it went into limp mode. Headed to the autoparts to use their code reader, and it actually came to a stop at one point. Started again and made it to the store. Their basic reader gave me the 3190, but nothing else.

However, when I started it again to leave, the lights were all off and it drove normally the mile to my house. I didn't punch it or test its power though.

So, just thought I'd see if y'all have an guesses where to start. I know it could be a real serious issue, like the inverter, but I'm hoping its something easy, and maybe the way it came back to normal suggests that.

I'm thinking it is either:

the 12v battery
bad injector(s)
dirty throttle body
inverter coolant pump

Battery is easy, I have a new one and another in my other running car. Perhaps, being connected by jumper cables is not allowing the new one to recharge? I'll install it properly.

I have some throttle body spray and will clean that up.

Wouldn't the auto parts basic scanner capture a bad injector code? If not, can I just pull the coils one at a time to identify the bad one?

I'll check to make sure the pump is working and coolant is circulating in the bottle. Pretty sure I replaced that pump not long ago (with so many cars, I do get confused) and it can't have more than 100 miles on it.

Is there anything that can cause a random 3190, since the code cleared by itself after the 3rd time I re-started it?

The engine temp light has turned on a couple of times because of that coolant leak. The last time was several days ago. I've driven it probably 50 miles since then, and didn't drive it but a mile or two after the red light came on on any of those occasions, coasting/using electric only as much as possible. The light would turn back off when I did that, so I don't think it got real hot, and I didn't have to add much water.

 

just thought...did the parts store clerk clear the code? I didn't see her do that, but that was when it cleared. However, that was also the 3rd restart, which, IIRC, is how many it takes to clear a code, and the engine had probably cooled a bit in the 10 minutes I was there.

 

OK, the new battery is installed. The inverter coolant pump is working just fine, lots of circulation. I disconnected each injector, one at a time, and it would shudder when the gas engine kicked in on each one, then stop when I reconnected and restarted.

It seems to be fine now, so I'm back to wondering if there's any way to cause a random 3190. Probably not. I figure something is about to break and with my recent luck, it won't be before I give my other working car to the buyer tomorrow. I'd sure like to figure out what it is before then.

 

I wonder if it could be the coolant loss. The red light didn't come on this time, like it did the other couple of times the coolant got low. But, the bottle was empty again, and I poured about a quart of distilled water in the bottle and radiator without it filling up. I need to buy more coolant.

Is there anything unique about this car's cooling system, on the gas engine side, that could lose coolant without seeing it drip? Er, should back up and say that I haven't checked thoroughly underneath, maybe it does drip very slowly. Or only while running.

My guess is that it needs a water pump, and they're probably cheap and easy to install (if I still had my tools). I don't know if this car's has ever been replaced - I bought it with 211000 miles and have only driven it less than 1000. If not, I'm sure it's time.

Can I do the old pump-up pressure test at the radiator and learn anything? They rent that tool at the parts house.

 

Thanks, Chap. Now, I've screwed up again. Swapping the batteries I did the stupid reverse polarity - this new battery has the poles reversed. I didn't notice before because I was only connecting it with jumper cables.

The car would try to start, but only the electric motor came on. When it tried to kick the gas engine, nothing. Headlights were on, but no interior, dash, doors, trunk, windows. So, I've found two bad fuses in the drivers side engine compartment box. Now, both engines start, the dome light comes on, trunk light, but nothing on the dash, radio, windows, locks. Even the instrument panel is dark until I turn the key to start, then it comes on.

The horn also beeps quickly when I try to start. And when I tested the horn later, it stuck on, even with the key removed. Yanked the positive cable at the battery to stop it.

Seems like another fuse to me, but I pulled all of them from two engine compartment boxes and the one inside the drivers door, and they all appear good.

I have some kind of meter - ohmeter, voltmeter (I'm electricity stupid, not just ignorant). Flipping the dial to 300V, the battery is 12.6.

Are there other fuses I'm missing. Do all of those things sound like one fuse, or maybe a relay? I wonder which one. I'll search here and google for fuse box diagrams, but if you can point me somewhere, I'd sure appreciate. This is the car I have sold tomorrow, lol. I was putting the new battery in it for my buyer and swapping the older one into my keeper.

On that car, the original subject of this post, it seems to be all working now, so not sure where to go with it. But do need to find the coolant leak.

 

OK, my mistake. Better assessment: everything seems to work fine when I start the engine, except the brakes (no boost). The orange triangle, brake alert and check engine light are on in the instrument panel, as well as the alert on the far right in the MFD. And, the horn will still stick. But lots of stuff doesn't work, and the instrument panel and MFD don't work, when the key is only in the ON position. I have to turn it to Start. So, I drove to the parts house to get the codes read and they came back with P1636 and a recommendation to replace the ECM. I've read elsewhere here that the 1636 actually refers to the HV-ECU, but they're so interrelated that I don't know.

I'm about to research, but if any of this rings a bell, I'd love to hear y'all's thoughts.

 

Well, I'm reading threads here and none with the 1636 have my symptoms. Their cars don't even start. Two things I read: there's an, IIRC, an EFI fuse between the HV battery and the HV-ECU - where is that? And BobW talked about some "stickies" that beat this horse to death. Where do I find the stickies here?

 

OK, see that the EFI fuse is in the main fuse box, and I checked all those. It might have been one of the two in there that I replaced that allows the gas engine to now run. And, of course, the other one helped with a lot of the other accessories.

Now, I'm wondering. The three issues: no brake boost, sticking horn, and nothing working when in the ON position and not yet started. I saw another 1636 thread here from long ago where the guy had a bad brake relay. Maybe my brake relay is burnt too. Could that, somehow, trigger the 1636? Where does the horn fit in?

I know, Chap, I should get the manuals and diagrams. I'm going to admit...I'm older and have some mental issues, probably early Alzheimer's. I really struggle to focus on detailed tasks these days. Hell, even the non-detailed, like putting a battery in right. So, I'm my own worst enemy sometimes. But the thought of learning electronics at this stage of my life is scary. It would be very hard. And, I'll admit as well, that all this misfortune - losing my truck, trailer and all my tools, no way to earn a living, it's wearing on me. I'm an upbeat, positive guy, but I'm getting real stressed and breaking down some. Two weeks ago, I had a nice truck and two nice cars, all running great (except that coolant leak). After a lot of other tough luck, I was just getting ahead, had a little money in the bank. Today, I got no truck and two broken cars and not much of the money left. I thought it was a blessing from heaven when this lady responded to that long ago ad for my car - I really need that money, and damn if I didn't screw it up. Just don't think I'm up to learning those wiring diagrams. It could be the last straw, lol.

That and the fact that it is hot as heck here in Houston this week, and I got no shade to work under. You need a fork to breathe the last couple of days. I can only stand it an hour at a time. Sorry to cry on y'all's shoulder, but it's just me and my dog, and he doesn't talk back. Thanks for all y'all's help.

 

OK, I did find an old post here from a guy with similar symptoms, caused the same way. He solved it with a new DC/DC fuse, and a couple of others he didn't name. I've replaced those other two and hope that replacing the DC/DC will solve my problems. Does sound like a PITA to replace though.

So, I searched for that here, and found a post that included pics, but no step-by-step details. I'll dive in anyway, but if anyone has better instructions, would love to have them.

 

I could get that fuse off one of my parts cars, but I expect it's more work than it's worth. Hopefully, they don't cost much.

 

Drove my keeper car, the one that gave me the 3190, about 50 miles today, and never got another CEL. Reset the MPG and got on the freeway, and was getting close to 50mpg over a few miles. But, once I got off and drove back home through traffic, it was down to 34. I'm thinking the low MPG and less power is mostly because I have the AC running constantly, so it never shuts off at traffic lights, and it's pulling some of the power. But, still, that 3190 makes me wonder if it's got a small problem that is going to get worse. I hope it's not the fuel pump, it sounds like those are a PITA to replace. However, both parts cars still have the tanks and pump, so it shouldn't cost me anything but more hard work.

Dang heat almost killed me today. I was replacing the front strut on that car I'm selling and was getting nauseous.

Where do I check the fuel pressure?

 

Boy howdy, that DC/DC fuse is a Huge PITA. Didn't see the detailed instructions in the thread I found here, but the pics got me going. And hour later and a gallon of sweat here in Houston, and I had everything except the fusible link disconnected. Squeezing everywhere on that thing from underneath, like the others, and nothing made it come out. Came back in to shower off and look at the directions again, and see that the entire block comes out the bottom, not just the connector. About to go work on it again with some dry clothes on.