Bad knocking from top of engine...won't start

Discussion in 'Generation 1 Prius Discussion' started by Blotto, Nov 30, 2018.

  1. Blotto

    Blotto New Member

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    Hi folks,

    This is my wife's beloved 2001 Prius - bought new in in 2001 and now with 320k miles (main battery replaced at about 150k)
    On the way to work, it suddenly started knocking badly so she pulled into a parking lot and called me.
    I tried restarting - no luck - and the engine sounded really bad.

    We eventually decided to buy a new one - a Prius 2 Eco.

    Now I'm wondering what to do with the old Prius. I'm guessing I can't do any more damage by cranking the engine and testing with a compression gauge?

    Appreciate any thoughts.

    Cheers
     
  2. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    Welcome to Prius Chat (y).

    Some questions:

    • Were there any dash lights displayed on the dash?
    • Do you have a way to read trouble codes?
    • Any recent maintenance performed?
    • When were the spark plugs last changed?
    You get the idea;).

    Good luck and keep us posted (y).
     
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  3. Blotto

    Blotto New Member

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    Ray,

    Many thanks for the welcome - I'm very pleased to be here!

    To answer your questions:

    1. My wife doesn't remember any dash lights displayed but she must have been a bit frazzled by the noise from the engine and probably was concentrating on getting off the road somewhere, out of traffic. I've just been out to take a look and the check engine light is on (orange engine icon).

    2. The engine codes are as follows:

    Fault: 04
    Pend:01

    P0300
    01/05

    P0301
    02/05

    P0302
    03/05

    P0304
    04/05

    P0301 P
    05/05

    (which is a "Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected" and cylinders 1,2,4 misfires detected)

    3. There has not been any recent maintenance performed.

    4. I'm embarrassed to report that we can't remember the last time the plugs were replaced - didn't I read somewhere they are good for 100k miles?

    Thanks!
     
  4. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    I’d pull the plugs and take a look at them along with any connected bits.

    Also check to make sure your engine coolant level in the radiator is full.

    See where that takes you.

    What are you using to pull the codes? While everything so far seems on the engine side, if you have access to Techstream that would be best to ensure you are getting all the information.

    Good luck and keep us posted (y).
     
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  5. Brian in Tucson

    Brian in Tucson Active Member

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    The knocking might be from a loose spark plug. The misfires are bad plug(s) and or bad coils. If you feel like you can invest maybe a couple of hundred bucks, I'd suggest getting new coils and new iridium plugs and see if that resolves the problem. In the meantime, you can check the gaps on the plugs and see if one of them is leaking--loose. Rock auto probably has NGK or Nippon Denso coils and plugs, which would probably be OEM.

    Have you or your wife been pretty proactive in changing the oil & filter and checking the oil? Synthetic oil helps with long term wear, btw. If all else fails, have it towed to an independent hybrid shop for diagnosis.

    At 320K miles, you certainly have gotten your money's worth!

    I've gotten 92,000 out of a set of iridium plugs on a ford V8, but at that point, the misfire was pretty awful and the mileage improved about 20% after a comprehensive tune up.
     
    #5 Brian in Tucson, Dec 1, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2018
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  6. 05PreeUs

    05PreeUs Senior Member

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    Unfortunate situation, but good choice IMO.

    Damage is done. I'm totally guessing here, but my gut thinks the timing chain may have worn to the point is skipped, causing piston to valve contact. If so, you will find very low or no compression, mostly equal on all cylinders.
     
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  7. Brian in Tucson

    Brian in Tucson Active Member

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    Is the IC an interference engine? If what you suggest is the case, would a piston hit a valve?

    I think it's still prudent to investigate ignition faults
     
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  8. 05PreeUs

    05PreeUs Senior Member

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    Yes, yes and agreed.
     
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  9. Blotto

    Blotto New Member

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    Wow, many thanks guys.

    Coolant level is good - up to the top.

    I'll pull the plugs and show photos..

    Here's the scanner I have been using:
    Scanner.jpg

    I'll google Techstream.

    I've been religious in changing the oil and filter at 3 - 4k miles with regular Valvoline 5w-30.
     
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  10. Blotto

    Blotto New Member

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    Why doesn't this car fire up?

    IMG_0811.JPG IMG_0810.JPG
     
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  11. Blotto

    Blotto New Member

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    The moderator has to approve some photos of the #1 plug.

    (I presume the numbering of cylinders is looking left to right, 1,2,3,4, standing in front of the car)

    #1 plug oil soaked - was very loose!
    #2 plug is in very tight
    #3 plug is in very tight
    #4 plug - not oil soaked but in bad condition (photos in next post)

    I'm tempted to spray PBlaster down the plug wells(?) to loosen up the plugs in #2,3.
    They are in very tight and I don't want to strip the threads of the plug hole.

    Advance Auto had some NGKs that I plan on putting in (cheap, non-iridium) just to see if it fires up.
     
  12. Blotto

    Blotto New Member

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    Plug #4 - think I'll ask for a refund. I'm amazed the car even ran.
    Plug 4a.jpg Plug 4b.jpg
     
  13. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    Well there’s your problem ;).

    That plug looks spent :eek:.

    The Autotel is a decent scanner, but with a gen1 and high mileage with a car the wife still loves, I’d improve my technology to keep her happy:love:.

    Not sure where the hv battery state of charge was left, but just be wary of starting the car too many times as you are in a pitch count until the battery is below what it considers enough juice to go;).

    Good luck and keep us posted (y).
     
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  14. 05PreeUs

    05PreeUs Senior Member

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    I would get new coil boots and a tube of dielectric grease while you are out ;)
     
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  15. Blotto

    Blotto New Member

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    Thanks for the advice Ray.

    Hopefully the PBlaster will free up the other two plugs.

    Anyone know the recommended torque setting for spark plugs (with anti-seize applied to the threads)?

    Thanks!
     
  16. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    For the Gen3 it is 15 foot pounds.

    I would assume the same.
     
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  17. Blotto

    Blotto New Member

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    John,
    Yeah, if it fires up I'll be treating her to new plug wires and iridium plugs.
     
  18. Blotto

    Blotto New Member

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    Ha!
    Thanks for the quick reply, Ray.
     
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  19. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    Pleasure;).

    Good luck and keep us posted (y).
     
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  20. 05PreeUs

    05PreeUs Senior Member

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    DO NOT do that. The Tq listed for sparkplugs is almost ALWAYS for DRY threads. In the old days of iron heads and steel plugs, it was not that big a deal; today with Ni coated plugs and Al heads, not only is there no need for that [email protected], it can cause damage to the Al threads.

    No OEM uses anti-seize on plugs from the factory, they do not get rusted in and do not gall, when changed at the recommended interval (the fine-wire pencil plugs in 3v Fords are an exception, but it is not the threads that are the problem).
     
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