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Baffler

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by airportkid, Apr 2, 2012.

  1. airportkid

    airportkid Will Fly For Food

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    That SOP for ANY multi-engine contraption with multiple independent powerplants - you have to assure what you've got started is running properly; if you gang started all your engines and one had a problem it'd be too confusing to sort out which one in time to prevent permanent damage.

    Also, more importantly, gang starting would take more energy than the battery or APU can produce - and to keep those components light on an airplane they're made only big enough to start one engine at a time.

    Even when the Air Force scrambles 8 engine B-52s for nuclear war exercises and the idea is to get the entire wing airborne in minutes they still light their engines one at a time, while taxiing to the runway after enough are running to taxi with.
     
  2. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    I'll remain skeptical until they explain how it works. The article says "The Avro engine converts sound waves into energy." Sound waves are a form of energy. You don't convert something into itself. So the statement doesn't really mean anything. So the reporter doesn't know what he's talking about.

    Sound familiar?

    Mravcak said "We've eliminated the turbine blades and the moving parts forward of the compressor," which does not sound like "No moving parts" to me. It sounds to me like they are working on a design (the first line of the article says they're working on it, not that it exists) which might be simpler than existing designs.

    Bottom line, I call bullshit on the article, though what's probably true is that they're working on a design which they hope will turn out to be an improvement. A common theme in bad science reporting (and most mainstream reporting is bad reporting) is reporting preliminary trials as though they were confirmed results. A scientist discovers an interesting factoid about cancer which suggests a possible line of research, and the newspapers scream "Cure for cancer found."
     
  3. ny_rob

    ny_rob Senior Member

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    Wow- could revolutionize jet engine design if it proves out.
    There have been jet engines with no moving (compressor blades) parts for years- the Ramjet ([ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramjet]Ramjet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]) but it's impractical for general aviation use as it requires air being forced into it's intake at 600mph before it starts.
     
  4. ny_rob

    ny_rob Senior Member

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    For those interested- APU= Auxiliary Power Unit... in many cases it's just a simple wheeled cart with multiple conventional 12v batteries wired in parallel to provide lots of cranking amps for aircraft. It's generally wheeled over to then plugged into the aircraft before the electrical system is powered up- then disconnected after the engine(s) are started.
    As airportkid noted- the small onboard batteries are only used for starting when there's no APU available.

    One trick we used to use at the NYC 34th st Heliport was water-alcohol injection on hot humid days. You switched it on just before takeoff and kept it running till you got a couple hundred feet out over the East River. The water-alcohol helped cool the turbine so you could get more power/torque from it without over-temping it. It was pretty much only used during high DA (Density Altitude) conditions when carrying a full ship (of passengers). The issue with the 34th st Heliport was that unlike an airport where you can get a running start with the helicopter to build up lift- as soon as you turned around- the pier ended and dropped down directly into the East River. It was a very challenging location to takeoff and land...