Ban European/Japanese Cars!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Darwood @ Mar 29 2007, 01:07 PM) [snapback]414284[/snapback]</div>

Yeah but it has shielded them from media scrutiny. Can you imagine how the media would have demonized GM or Ford if they would have publicly announced they were coming out with the "biggest, baddest truck in the world?" Teh tundra is an absolute pig when it comes to mpg, but you barely hera about it.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Mar 29 2007, 01:11 PM) [snapback]414285[/snapback]</div>

Well, we will have to wait and see. I haven't seen anything from them that makes me think that have changed their strategy. I think GM could come back and gain market share, but they can't do it by making and selling large trucks and SUVs while mostly neglecting their car market.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MarkMN @ Mar 29 2007, 01:13 PM) [snapback]414287[/snapback]</div>

Did you ask about Chevy's or Ford's and how they compare? Also incompetent GM still delivers far more vehicles in the US than toyota and actually GM is gaining market share in most of the world. I agree about the mindset of most GM and Ford dealers. We think of ourselves as truck dealers first and foremost. i know at our stores we have made conscious effort to change that.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Mar 29 2007, 01:14 PM) [snapback]414289[/snapback]</div>

You are right about this. The tundra is a pig, and toyota probably does get away with it more than GM would, but that is due to GM's track record of producing hummers and other gas pigs for so many years now. I have no idea why Toyota is trying to compete on that level. If I was a rancher or farmer and needed a big truck, I will admit it probably would be a GM truck - they have a lot of track record on this segment while toyota doesn't.

 

Yes, dwindling fuel is also Toyota's number one threat. And most of us here are more a fan of the Prius than we are of Toyota. I frown upon their behemoths too. Toyota is at least halfway down the road to having a viable PHEV. A road GM started, but decided to crush. I really do hope GM is serious about the volt! I will buy the first viable plug in, regardless of who makes it, and I only want a 10-20 mile range!
They can do it already, but won't. Which tells me that political forces are making these decisions moreso than GM and Toyota anyways! My gut instinct is that GM screwed the pooch when they sold the rights to the EV1 battery technology to AN OIL COMPANY! Those patents (on NiMH's larger than the Prius) run out, oh just about the time GM says they hope to start producing the Volt!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Mar 29 2007, 12:11 PM) [snapback]414285[/snapback]</div>

I believe the current GM management is focused and hungry. They're focused on making the most per quarter and the hell with the long-term picture. And yes, they're very, very hungry, and feed on their employees and the U.S. consumer. I also agree 100% the the arrogance hung around far too long. I don't see any signs that it's gone, however.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MarkMN @ Mar 29 2007, 01:20 PM) [snapback]414299[/snapback]</div>

$$$$$ and greed. It is by far the largest and most profitable segment of the US auto industry. The Chevy Silverado would be in the top 100 US corporations in Sales volume if it was its own entity and Ford sells more f-150's.

It is early yet, but it looks like toyota may have swung and missed again with the new Tundra!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Stev0 @ Mar 29 2007, 01:26 PM) [snapback]414305[/snapback]</div>

How would you know if it was gone or not? When was the last time you heard Wagner or Laneve unfiltered or Mullaly or Ford unfiltered?

 

Prius is a low-mid level entry car. There is really nothing special about how 'tight' the prius is. If this is it, Toyota is not impressive... it's just a car and there's nothing thrilling about it.

It's not as well manufactured as my 1999 F250 was. Fit, form, function and how it did over 7yrs, 110,000 miles was awesome. It didn't rattle, the experience didn't feel cheap like the Prius does... The refinement of detail on that Ford was a head above my Prius.

As far as I can tell, that seems to have stayed with the F series since then. I know in the early 80's the F series was junk at least through 1986. I'm not sure when they got their act together on those. They've also been the leader in the market with the F series for almost 30 years.

My wife's 1997 Mercury tracer (Ford Escort) is pretty much junk. The drivetrain has held up, but the details and refinement on the car are a disaster. The radiator has leaked (drip in winter only) for at least the last 5 years, the fit of the hood, door panels and etc.. just are not that well refined... perhaps choice of materials is part of this. 95,000 miles and 10 years... just seems all ratted out and she treated it nice.. If that's how the focus and windstar, freestar freestyle or whatever the current brands are, then Ford should just get out of the car business and stick with the truck line. It's cheaper to pour in a couple gallons of 50/50 antifreeze over the winter and let it drip than to fix it or have it fixed.

Prius is alright.... if that's the best toyota has to offer then the "toyota is tight and solid" crowd needs to get out a little more. Hopefully the Camry and Lexus and higher end stuff is more well made.

 

"It is early yet, but it looks like toyota may have swung and missed again with the new Tundra!"

Good! I hope so.
I just hope GM will at leasty take their bat off their shoulder with the volt instead of complaining to the ump to change the rules.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Mar 29 2007, 01:29 PM) [snapback]414306[/snapback]</div>

It just is that Toyota has a very successful car lineup - why change focus to try to compete in an overcrowded American large truck market in the face of higher gas prices??

I hope Toyota does fail with its Tundra so that it learns a lesson in expanding into the gas guzzler industry. Maybe they will think twice before increasing the size of the camry every time they do a redesign (it was once a sensible size, but now it is boat of a car).

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Mar 29 2007, 12:29 PM) [snapback]414306[/snapback]</div>

I don't care about talk, filtered or unfiltered. I'll know it's gone when I see a GM vehicle that's worth buying.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MarkMN @ Mar 29 2007, 01:35 PM) [snapback]414322[/snapback]</div>

You noticed the Camry redesigns. How about he Avalon, the RAV4, the 4Runner, the tacoma, the sequoia. How about the new FJ cruiser? Another fuel pig. How come nobody in the media ever questions toyota's product planning and mix? Roughly the same mileage ratings as the vaunted GM Hummer H3.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Stev0 @ Mar 29 2007, 01:37 PM) [snapback]414323[/snapback]</div>

With your attitude about GM could GM ever build a vehicle worth buying in your estimation?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Mar 29 2007, 11:12 AM) [snapback]414183[/snapback]</div>

That may be true, I have no way of verifying without a lot of digging. But the fact remains, the Big 3 aren't making vehicles I want to buy. I come from a Ford family, and if there was a Ford or other domestic that fit my needs, I would buy it before a similar foreign car. (Although I'm not sure about the twins - are the profits on a Pontiac Vibe distributed differently than on a Toyota Matrix?).

That said, I have never bought a domestic car (had a Chevy in college, but it was in my parents name...and it was a POC). I do not try to justify the Tundra, I bought the Prius because it is one-of-a-kind. The closest competition is the HCH. If the Chevy Volt comes out, that will likely be my next car. Every industry has to consider all the competition and market trends and plan ahead, or they will lose. It is not the American way to prop up a weak business model because of a sense of loyalty.

As for American economic strength, our trade imbalance is a big concern. And there, oil imports is a much, much bigger number than foreign-branded car imports. My sense of patriotism drives me to reduce our economic dependence on oil from sources unfriendly to the U.S. - we are bulls led by our nose-rings and OPEC has the rope. Wasting gas is un-American, even more so than buying a foreign vehicle.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Mar 29 2007, 01:41 PM) [snapback]414332[/snapback]</div>

Yeah I noticed the Camry redesigns. It was once my dream car several years back, but now it is the size of my now deceased 1980 Oldsmobile Delta 88 which I hated driving. The Avalon had to get bigger because the camry got bigger, and the other vehicles crept larger too every redesign. I worry about the Prius becoming too large in its next redesign - its current size is the perfect size IMO. I don't think the media is all that friendly to Toyota though???

 

what's highly amusing is that the tundra is so damn big, they had to go to dealers and make sure the lifts and the alignment machines could hold the thing!

everything everywhere is getting bigger. i'm not impressed. i like a small car. not tiny, but small. DH's 89 camry is smaller than the prius front to back. he had a hycam to drive around the other day and whaddaya know, i think it was bigger, parked next to the prius.

of course we want toyota business to do well, DH's work volume depends on it. not the fun work volume (di-ag) but the service volume in general. and before you ask, until he tore into a toyota he was a huge GM fan and had applied for apprenticeships at various GM dealers before he really got into the dealer business. would have ended up working for saturn, except he got so damn disgusted with his own sl1.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Mar 29 2007, 12:42 PM) [snapback]414332[/snapback]</div>

They did. The EV1.

 

It is really coming down to supply and demand, is it not? I have driven more US built cars (4 since College) then foreign built cars (1 ->Prius) My experience has been that I cannot get the kind of car from a US company that I wish to drive. I held out for the Ford Escape Hybrid twice.. once before buying my Prius when Ford was delaying announcements and gave out very little information and once again in 2004, when even the Ford dealers had no idea when the car would be released, even though car reviews were in full swing.

Lets face it friends, we are in the minority to those who rather drive a large SUV, Truck or Bummer. The majority is what a for profit company focuses on, hence all car manufacturers will continue to offer the cars that people want .. or think they want

Once gasoline hits $5.00 or close, we will see a slow trend change in finding a more economical car and car manufacturers will slowly embrace that new trend and seek to make money from it.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(nerfer @ Mar 29 2007, 12:43 PM) [snapback]414336[/snapback]</div>

Yeah, we are spending at least as much on oil to nations a lot less stable and friendly than Japan.

Yes, I know a lot of people still love their gas guzzlers - some were probably hoping Chrysler Group and GM would merge so they could produce....

THE RAMMER



Maybe someone smarter than me can answer this: if Detroit is buliding light trucks because that's were the market is, then why are Toyota and Honda making record profits, in part filling in the vacuum left by the Oldsmobile and Taursus?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Delta Flyer @ Mar 29 2007, 02:27 PM) [snapback]414376[/snapback]</div>

A portion of the record profits can be traced directly back to the Japanese governments artificial manipulation of the yen v dollar.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Mar 29 2007, 03:26 PM) [snapback]414412[/snapback]</div>

Can you provide a source? Just curious.