Battery fully charged for 1st time...only showing 19.4 miles of range?

Discussion in 'Prime Technical Discussion' started by Banksy, Apr 3, 2021.

  1. Banksy

    Banksy Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2020
    364
    106
    0
    Location:
    Lancaster Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    2021 Prius Prime
    Model:
    XLE
    So I charged my PP for the first time.

    Took about 5 to 5.5 hrs on level 1 charge

    Two things

    Showing only 19.4 miles of range

    Thought range was 25

    Also text keeps popping up after powering off my PP
    "Next charge event: plug immediately on plug in"

    Why is it displaying this text if it's fully charged?
     
  2. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    42,193
    13,748
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Technology
    It depends on your efficiency (as shown on the Eco Diary screen). It’ll be less than 25 miles in the winter (usually, unless you’re somewhere mild) and above 25 in the summer (closer to 30-35).

    Yeah that message isn’t written the best but basically it’s telling you that the car will start charging immediately the next time you plug in (as opposed to having a timer charge).
     
  3. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2015
    7,892
    6,318
    0
    Location:
    New England
    Vehicle:
    2020 Prius Prime
    Model:
    LE
    EV range is an estimate based on previous drives. In your case, you have no EV driving history, so it is perfectly normal to have a smaller number. It will gradually increase as long as you are conservative on pedal press while you drive on EV mode. As for the message you are seeing, I think it is the normal message showing when you don't have any scheduled charge. I am sure you can just ignore it until the next charge event. I thought the message is a temporary flash when you turn off the car.
     
    jerrymildred and Banksy like this.
  4. Banksy

    Banksy Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2020
    364
    106
    0
    Location:
    Lancaster Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    2021 Prius Prime
    Model:
    XLE

    So basically what you're telling me is

    This is what I'm supposed to see and is

    Also for what it's worth the current temp here is 45

    I'm assuming then whats going on is this number is going to change when I start driving and is just the estimated range after I charged it?


    This makes a ton of sense.

    So essentially it's a base line

    Thank you I appreciate your help on all my posts for my Prime thus far you've been very informative
     
    #4 Banksy, Apr 3, 2021
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 4, 2021
    Salamander_King likes this.
  5. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2015
    7,892
    6,318
    0
    Location:
    New England
    Vehicle:
    2020 Prius Prime
    Model:
    LE
    You are very welcome. Yes, the EV range on the dash is so-called Guess-O-Meter or GOM. It changes as you drive more EV mode. If you drive efficiently it will increase, but if you drive lead-footed, it may not change much. But, yes, 19.4 miles is probably as low as it will ever show. Also, as commented by @Tideland Prius the EV range is reduced during cold weather, you will see a seasonal reduction in EV range both actual and displayed during winter months.

    Oh, one thing. You may want to change your profile to reflect your new PP. It is still showing you are driving a 2008 PriusTwo. Enjoy your new PP. I hope you get the issue of the Softex damage solved in your favor.
     
    #5 Salamander_King, Apr 3, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2021
    jerrymildred likes this.
  6. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2008
    2,240
    1,298
    0
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    This is a long post, I know, but please bear with me for some historical EV-range impressions from a long-time owner:

    There are two separate questions here:
    — What actual EV range do you get, and
    — What EV-range estimate does it give you?

    My 2017 P.Prime’s actual EV range — not just the guestimatron’s estimate — has been more variable for me than average. Many people here have reported very little range variation that cannot be accounted for by outdoor temperature, climate-control usage, and the fuel-efficiency of your driving.

    Most people see more consistency in the actual EV range, and more variability in their ‘Prime’s estimate thereof. For me it’s been the opposite: I have seen a lot more variation in the actual range, in part based upon my ~19-mile commute to work. It started showing 34ish miles of range; when I left home and landed at work showing 11-12ish miles left, so its actual range was around 30-32, estimating 34.

    Then, about 8 months after I bought it, it dropped in three distinct steps over the course of about a month down to 25ish miles, IIRC 30, then 28, then 25. Each time, GoM (“guess-o-meter”) was fairly consistently between dead-on and ~10% high.

    All this time, very little changed in external temperature or my driving habits. Winter temperatures here in Austin TX (other than this past February!) don’t get very cold. What did change was my charging habits: shortly before this drop, I’d developed a habit of charging it up at a quasi-free charging station at the local mall the night before. That, rather than timer-charging it in the morning (well, I was still timer-charging it, but it came back from the mall pretty nearly full).

    About 9ish months later, it went back up to where its been holding up until the Pandemic hit: around 28 miles, verified fairly close by the odometer.

    However, about a month after the Pandemic hit, and I stopped commuting to work, the estimate dropped briefly to ~19 miles. I checked that against the odometer and it was pretty much dead-on exact (within a few tenths of a mile). After a couple months, it went back up again.

    From my experience, its varying its charging margin (how much charge it reserves at the “full” end of the battery, for the purpose of reducing fatigue on the battery. It “fears” for battery longevity and increases that margin, then mellows out and raises it. People here who have been monitoring their battery voltages exactly using (Android-only) OBDII-monitoring software have found very little variation in the battery voltage at which it stops charging, suggesting that does not vary its charging margins.

    A few here have reported similar changes in actual range under pretty-much-unchanging driving conditions, but most have found their actual range to be depend fairly predictably based upon external temperature and climate-control usage, while the guesstimatron estimates have varied considerably. Again, it’s been the opposite for me.
     
    #6 mr88cet, Apr 4, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2021
  7. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    42,193
    13,748
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Technology
    Yeah and basically if you can consistently get more than 25 miles, that range estimate will go up.
     
  8. Boomer 2298

    Boomer 2298 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2020
    29
    9
    0
    Location:
    Edinboro, PA USA
    Vehicle:
    2021 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Limited
    Interestingly since I purchased my 21 prime it really doesn’t go much over 20 miles on a full charge. Warmer weather does help it improve from a winter 18 miles to today at 71 degrees 20.9 miles. The car was purchased in mid January and was down most of February while I had Covid. I will be switching from snow tires this weekend to factory tires so hopefully I will see a increase. My commute is 70 miles with 50 on the interstate.
     
  9. Gokhan

    Gokhan Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2008
    990
    462
    0
    Location:
    Paramount CA
    Vehicle:
    2021 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Limited
    All normal, the range estimate is the worst-case scenario, and it'll be adjusted according to your driving history. Yes, you can ignore the "charge immediately" message. The correct time to charge is just before EV driving for the longest battery cycle life.
     
    Banksy likes this.
  10. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    42,193
    13,748
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Technology
    That highway driving is probably what is driving down your EV range. It's best to drive in HV mode on the highway and save the battery for the 20 miles off the highway rather than driving in EV for the first 20 miles (which I presume already starts to include the highway portion).
     
    jerrymildred, pghyndman and Gokhan like this.
  11. Banksy

    Banksy Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2020
    364
    106
    0
    Location:
    Lancaster Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    2021 Prius Prime
    Model:
    XLE

    Can you switch from EV to HV without hurting the car while it's moving?
     
    Gokhan likes this.
  12. Gokhan

    Gokhan Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2008
    990
    462
    0
    Location:
    Paramount CA
    Vehicle:
    2021 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Limited
    Yes, of course. I do it all the time. I always start on EV and drive until I pass the first red traffic light and then turn on HV. This greatly improves the fuel economy because cold-engine idling is the biggest waste of fuel in Prius Prime. However, drive very gently when you first turn on HV with a cold engine until the engine warms up. Never race a cold engine.
     
    pghyndman and Tideland Prius like this.
  13. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    42,193
    13,748
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Technology
    Yup. (The owner's manual doesn't mention anything against it so it's safe to assume Toyota has put safeguards).

    The engine in any Prius (plug-in or regular hybrid) is started by the electric motor and thus can spin to a higher rpm before firing up than an alternator can. An example was with the old Gen 2, where a starter motor might start a regular car's engine to around 100rpm before ignition, the Gen 2's MG1 would spin up to 1,000rpm before ignition, thus reducing wear and tear. I don't know the specifications for the Gen 4's engine but I'd imagine its operation is similar.

    Also, when the engine is firing at highway speeds, it's not powering the car initially. The beauty of the Power Split Device is that the engine can run at idle to warm-up while relying on the battery to continue powering the car until the warm-up cycle is complete. Of course, to reduce wear and tear, avoid accelerating hard or switching to HV just before a steep climb cause then the engine will rev up and power the car which can accelerate wear and tear.
     
  14. Banksy

    Banksy Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2020
    364
    106
    0
    Location:
    Lancaster Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    2021 Prius Prime
    Model:
    XLE
    It looks as if I only got about 15 miles out of this first charge


    I am going to charge again and see what the range is

    It should be noted a few days went by before I used the first charge

    For whatever that's worth
     
  15. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2016
    9,426
    11,503
    0
    Location:
    Tampa, FL
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Premium
    I think you meant that the other way around, right? If you have a charge scheduled, this message pops up and if you push the "Yes" button, it will override the schedule and charge as soon as you plug in. I do this several times a week because I make lots of trips outside my regular commuting schedule.

    If you're driving on the Interstate in EV mode, don't expect much EV range. Just like high speeds use more gas per mile, they also use more electricity per mile.

    It won't affect range ... for now. But it will accelerate wear and tear on the traction battery if you frequently leave it fully charged (actually, as fully charged as Toyota allows) for days on end. There are two basic advantages to the scheduler. One is if you have time of use billing from the electric company. The other is so that you can plug it in when you get out and have it charge just before you leave next time, assuming your driving has a regular pattern.
     
  16. Banksy

    Banksy Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2020
    364
    106
    0
    Location:
    Lancaster Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    2021 Prius Prime
    Model:
    XLE
    No this was mostly in town driving

    There were one or two instances where I accelerated quite hard

    But that was only like 3 times
     
    jerrymildred likes this.
  17. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2016
    9,426
    11,503
    0
    Location:
    Tampa, FL
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Premium
    Hard acceleration isn't as bad for range as hard braking. Every hard brake from 45-50 throws away almost half a mile of range, sometimes more.

    Also, if I'm not mistaken, you're in a pretty hilly area. Depending on technique, hill can actually help a little but they can also hurt quite a bit.
     
  18. Banksy

    Banksy Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2020
    364
    106
    0
    Location:
    Lancaster Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    2021 Prius Prime
    Model:
    XLE

    Good to know

    Also...

    Why is this taking so long to charge?

    Advertised charge time is 5.5 hrs

    Current charge time is 6 hours and 40 minutes... why is this?
     
  19. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2015
    7,892
    6,318
    0
    Location:
    New England
    Vehicle:
    2020 Prius Prime
    Model:
    LE
    Oh, you may be right. I haven't charged PP for a while. You know I am "carless" right now.;) I ignored the message when I was charging daily on schedule, but with a scheduler on, I thought it would display what the next scheduled charge is. Without a scheduler, I thought it displayed Charge Now notice, that is "Next charge event: plug immediately on plug in" as described by OP. But as I said, I may be wrong.
     
    jerrymildred likes this.
  20. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    42,193
    13,748
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Technology
    Yeah something isn’t right. I consistently get 5.5hr on 120V.

    Are you charging from empty? Just wondering if the 8A option was accidentally selected.
     
    jerrymildred likes this.
Loading...