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Battery help. Swapping cells is all I can afford and doing it myself.

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by audiodave, Jul 3, 2022.

  1. audiodave

    audiodave Active Member

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    I'm buying used gen 3 cells off eBay. What am I looking for? What can you advise looking at my pic. I'm a knob at this and haven't touched the battery myself yet. It's a used pack from a year ago that had cells swapped twice within a month and has worked pretty well since today. Thanks for any help Screenshot_20220703-172353.jpeg

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  2. SFO

    SFO Senior Member

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    There are a handful of members here who sell modules. Which metroplex in the US are you nearest?
     
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  3. Another

    Another Senior Member

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  4. alftoy

    alftoy Senior Member

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    Not recommended to mix Gen 3 modules in a Gen 2 pack unless they are of similar capacity. Must be all Gen 3 modules or all Gen 2 in a complete pack. Others may explain why. Gen 3 muffler probably fits on a Gen 2 but not so much for battery modules, remember you asking.

    PriusCamper has a buddy 2nd Life Battery in Bend Oregon who supplies good quality tested modules.

    Toyota Prius Hybrid Battery Cell 8.2v | eBay
    Hybrid Car Battery Blog | 2nd Life Battery

    Or other members as well. @ericbecky, @TMR-JWAP
     
    #4 alftoy, Jul 6, 2022
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2022
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  5. SFO

    SFO Senior Member

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    Gen3 modules will fit just fine, but gen1 modules are a bit short lengthwise.
     
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  6. mr_guy_mann

    mr_guy_mann Senior Member

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    What symptoms and codes are you getting? That Dr Prius capture doesn't show anything definitively bad. Resistance on a couple blocks are slightly higher than others but by itself that isn't enough for me to condemn modules. (Each block is made up of 2 modules).

    If there is a P0A80, then you want to monitor block voltages whole driving the car hard. Watch the "Voltage Diff" data. A failing module will drop to 1.0-1.5V lower than the others when loaded. On a "good" pack Volt Diff stays below 0.3V most of the time - can briefly go to 0.5V.

    If you do need to swap modules, then good luck. The modules you put in have to have "about the same" state of charge and actual capacity as all the others in your pack. If not, it will set codes.

    Rarely, someone on the forums "just" swaps in a module or two- and it works (go buy a lottery ticket!). More often another block triggers a code and they swap more module- repeat as needed in the game we call "whack a mole".

    Others replace modules then discharge - charge cycle everything with "grid chargers" (does all the modules at once) or hobby RC chargers (does each module 1 at a time - multiplied by how many chargers you have).

    There's days of reading about module replacement if you use the search function.
    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
    #6 mr_guy_mann, Jul 6, 2022
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2022
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  7. alftoy

    alftoy Senior Member

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    Yes Gen 3 modules will fit in a Gen 2 case, but is the OP swapping all modules or just 2 or 3 Gen 3 modules into a Gen 2 pack.

    Considering the OP is a newb as he suggests and his ability to match capacities..
     
    #7 alftoy, Jul 6, 2022
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2022
  8. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    I have never seen a discernable difference between Gen 2 and Gen 3 modules, physically or performance-wise (based on just the generation). I've disassembled many Gen 2 'salvage yard' batteries removed from wrecks that have a couple Gen 3 (by date code). I've cycle tested thousands of modules, I wouldn't be able to tell you if one was a gen 2 or gen 3 unless I looked at the serial number. Similar capacity is much more important than similar date when replacing a module.

    Always go for the capacity match!!
     
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  9. app-o-matix

    app-o-matix Junior Member

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    I agree with @mr_guy_mann that, based on the screenshot, the modules look pretty decent. The graph exaggerates differences, sometimes making the differences look more significant than they are in reality. But the screenshot is just a moment in time and since those bars will rise and fall over time, I would see what maximum voltage difference you see, particularly if it rises over 1.0V. That could indicate a problematic module.
     
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  10. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    The voltages in the screenshot are effectively useless for judging the modules, as they are all in the 16.6 volt range, meaning they were very recently exposed to being charged. That hides a lot of problems. Although the battery is discharging at 1 amp in the screenshot, it really needs to be observed under more significant load.
     
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  11. app-o-matix

    app-o-matix Junior Member

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    Is the variation in IRs telling you anything? Even when I have modules that are problematic, my IRs tend to be dead even.
     
  12. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    In the big picture, if I were to plug my laptop into a 2004 with an original 200k mile battery, I would not be surprised at all by those IR numbers. They look like a battery that's starting to show it's age. I would not condemn a module just based on the values shown, but perhaps in conjunction with a load test. Something similar to the test available on the Hybrid Assistant app, where you can use the AC to load the HV system for several minutes and then graph the results to see if specific blocks are lagging.
     
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  13. audiodave

    audiodave Active Member

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  14. audiodave

    audiodave Active Member

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    I will put some load on it and watch the voltages. Right now it will be mostly charged and drop to one or two bars by the end of the block and repeat this cycle when I drive it again. It triggered the P0A80 code.

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  15. audiodave

    audiodave Active Member

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    It was a pack that had cells swapped on it twice before it lasted 10 months. Would hold a charge very stable but wouldn't charge all the way before it was overcharged. One bar before full.
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  16. mr_guy_mann

    mr_guy_mann Senior Member

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    With the battery at 6-7 bars, turn on (ready), leave it in park and turn on the A/C; high fan, LO temperature, windows down. Turn on the headlights and rear defogger.

    Now watch all the block voltages and Voltage Diff as the HV battery discharges. If you are getting a P0A80 then a block is dropping lower than the others. (The ICE should start up to recharge some at about 44% state of charge- 2 bars)

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  17. Another

    Another Senior Member

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  18. pasadena_commut

    pasadena_commut Senior Member

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    Translation: outside cleaned, any corrosion removed, and then power cycled for best performance. For all I know these may be as good as any used and reconditioned cell can get. However, "remanufactured" is quite a stretch for a component which cannot even be opened for service!
     
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  19. alftoy

    alftoy Senior Member

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    Quibbling over semantics, all that matters is the reputation of the vendor. PriusCamper sources all his modules from Joe at 2ndLife.
     
  20. audiodave

    audiodave Active Member

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    I bought 2 from this guy.
    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.