Battery replacement, brand new battery pack from dealership questions

I talked with Ashley. Hopefully the rebuilder settles things fairly.

Definitely plenty of other options for a new pack. Really sounds like the dealers in the area are confused about warranty on a new pack. Some refuse to even sell to customers (or local independent shops like mine) for some reason. Seems short sighted, but , whatever.

One way or another looks like Ashley will get a new pack. Hopefully can avoid the 6 hour drive to get a pack!

 

good news.

 

Interesting story....

I just bought a 2005 Prius w/ 176k at auction. I was pretty sure it was going to need a hybrid battery based on the lights on the dash. When I got the car and pulled the codes it showed PA080, P3016, P3017 confirming my suspicion. I pulled the battery out and it was a Falcon Hybrid Solution battery. I researched the Toyota history on Toyota's website and saw that on 10/18/14 it was diagnosed as needing a new hybrid battery which was declined at the dealer. I can only assume that sometime between 10/18/14 and the time I bought it last week the previous owner purchased and installed a falcon battery. I called Falcon to inquire about the battery (when it was installed, warranty etc). They answered the phone "Prius rebuilders", I gave them the serial number for the battery and the vehicle info and I am still waiting to here back, not holding my breath. I am not interested in having them send me another under warranty as I would prefer to rebuild it myself and not pay a couple hundred bucks in shipping and get another battery that I have no confidence in. I will update this thread if I hear back from them. They did inform me that the warranty is not transferable which is contrary to the warranty info on their website which states that it can be transferred once.

Upon tearing the battery apart, a couple of notes:

There are several connectors, bolts and trim pieces missing or assembled incorrectly.

The plastic caps that go over the high voltage terminals were missing (very dangerous)

Several of the 8mm bolts that screw into the bottom of the modules and secure to the case were missing or broken off inside modules.

The case was in rough shape. All bent up and a lot of corrosion.

Internally the modules were numbered with their scoring system from 740-770 with the higher numbers(indicating stronger) toward the center of the pack.

The bus bars were nickle plated like their website states but had new corrosion on them as to be expected.

The 8mm nuts that hold the bus bars onto the modules were all new and shiny. They are a different style than the OEM but should work fine.

The modules were a hodgepodge of different serial numbers and 5 or 6 were B2 modules which (from what I have determined) come with 2007 and up packs as well as 2007 and up Camry hybrids). I personally don't mix B2's with non B2's. I don't know this for fact but I believe the B2's are different resistance. Please chime in if you have any info on this.

One module was bad. The other 27 all passed a load test and looked pretty consistent.

I am not endorsing or condoning this company, just sharing info. Any company or person that rebuilds a battery can certainly have it fail again after it is rebuilt. The thing to consider is how it will be handled if that happens. Ideally, if you get your battery locally you won't have to pay shipping again for something that is not your fault.

I have some pictures but am having difficulties uploading them.

 

Skip dealer. Buy dorman. More bang for the buck 1307 36 month. Warranty

 

Yeah, that's an interesting story Tampa. So in all likelihood that reconditioned battery must have survived little more than about a month (maybe even just a few weeks) before failing. Everyone can have a "dud" slip through, but that sure wouldn't give you much confidence. It sounds like the previous owners must have pretty much just given up on it after having the second failure so soon.

 

We are making some big assumptions here.

Without more information we don't know whether Toyota diagnosed the bad Falcon pack on 10/18/14 or a bad Original Toyota pack. We are assuming it is the Falcon, but from the post we do not know this 100%. We could verify when the Falcon battery was purchased from Falcon and who installed it.

There are very few people that put all the right bolts in all the right places. Even dealerships put things together to incorrectly. Like most reputable hybrid specialist, I often see this and have to correct it.

It could have been the vehicle owner, as opposed to Falcon or the dealer, or even the installer, who left off the plastic covers, broken nuts, etc.

Now, with more research we may be able to determine which of the original assumptions are correct . But until then, we are making what could be some false assumptions.

I am not defending Falcon. I know Tampa Prius is just sharing information. It is still one competitor reporting negative observations about another competitor and we need to be extra thorough with the facts before we do this.

Full disclosure, I have never used Prius Rebuilders/Falcon or Tampa Prius.

 

Here is some follow up info....


I never received a call back from Falcon so I called them back and spoke to Abe. He is a nice guy and very knowledgeable. He told me from the serial number that the build date on the pack was early July/2014 so it would still be under warranty for the original owner. Their website said it could be transferred once but I didn't push it because I don't need the warranty. I also asked about their company and offered to do installs for them for any customers in Tampa. He added me to their list.


I also found a few service records in the glove box from the previous owner and called the phone number. They live in The Villages, Fl. which is a retirement community. The service records had a man’s name on it but he wasn't home. I spoke to his wife. She told me that they purchased the car new and she thought that it was around May/2014 that the battery had failed. Her husband ordered the battery online and had someone install it for them. (she wasn't sure who) They purchased another new Prius and were saving this car for their daughter but then the battery failed again and they contacted Falcon. Falcon told them the batteries were on back-order and they had to wait almost 2 months to get another. They didn't charge them a core deposit on the second one but they still sent it back and had to pay for shipping and installation again. After the second battery went in they decided to sell the car to a young man "who was so excited to get it". He only had it for about two or three months before I bought it at auction. She told me he knew that there was a warranty on the battery and could have had it replaced if he paid the shipping and installation. I asked her if she could do it all over again would she have gone a different route? She said definitely.


I left my number with her and she said she would have her husband call me with more details. I will update if I hear from him.


I am still curious about mixing the B2 modules if anybody has any info on this.

 

Thanks for going the extra mile on to get more info.
Turns out the original assumption that the battery was less than 2 months old was wrong.

It's always interesting to hear the back story on cars that end up at auction.

Now we know this car passed through several hands since the battery was installed.
Could be that the "excited young man" did some digging around in the battery compartment, and is the one who left the battery in such disarray. (As opposed to a dealer, or replacement battery installer)

 

Since Falcon does not install the battery, the installer or the car owner can always be suspected/blamed for anything and everything.

What BS. Just one more reason to avoid rebuilders who ship batteries.

 

TampaPrius,
If a customer brought you their old Gen2 pack with electronics, and a new OEM Gen3 pack, what would you charge to swap the modules ?

 

congrats!

 

Good to hear that things are headed toward resolution.
Glad to help anyone who needs a little encouragement. Since you'd pulled the battery a few times already, I was pretty confident you could do the extra work swapping the computer as well.
Nice to hear a positive ending to what sounded pretty dismal at the beginning. Keep in touch.

 

This really is the bottom line: the refurbs are no where near cheap enough to justify the hassles and inferior product.

If refurbs come out with a new set of reliable cells or a swap from a Gen3 pack and the price is right there is reason to consider that route.

 

It seems most refurbished batteries nowadays are made up of recycled weakened modules from failed packs. I can't imagine those modules lasting very long in a refurbished pack. Now that the Gen2 cars are at the 10 year mark, when the time comes to replace a pack, it's best to replace with a new pack from Toyota or sell the car.

Swapping modules from a Gen3 car will work but who can you trust to actually do what they claim?

 

That can be said of any transaction between two parties. Being paranoid is a tough way to live. You can always ask to help do the swap

Also, remember that the modules have serial numbers so if push came to shove you could always take the battery apart.

 

Unless you buy NEW, there's always some paranoia in buying used items. It would be too much work for the average person to source the gen3 pack, contact someone trustworthy and knowledgeable to do the swap......only to save a little money if everything goes well. If things go wrong, it may cost more than the money saved to get the car working again.

 

Just off-topic, that's very true. I recall maybe a decade back, watching a guy reglazing a neighbour's broken window. He wrapped up, knocked on the door. Lady came out with check book, cut him a check, and off he went.

That's the essence of successful commerce. There's several layers of trust needed there, for the whole thing to work.

 

The American way is to insert ever more layers of bureaucracy and lawyers as people trust each other less. And then they complain that services are expensive

 

Funny, I was thinking this would work quite well for the 'average' person. The owner saves money by being the gopher and doing the removal and installation, while the technical person essentially charges for safety by performing the module swap.