Big 3 - Thumbs Up or Down?

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by ibmindless, Nov 14, 2008.

  1. bac

    bac Active Member

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    I want to know what happened to all the "free market" guys? For some reason, they generally have no problem with the $700,000,000,000.00 taxpayer handout to the financial industry, nor the $25,000,000,000.00 taxpayer giveaway to the auto industry .... .which now wants MUCH, MUCH more.

    Why should they not be allowed to fail just like any other company/industry?

    ... Brad
     
  2. ctbering

    ctbering Rambling Man

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    I have my hand out too, Rambling Man Enterprises.
     
  3. 9G-man

    9G-man Senior Member

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    Let Big-Oil bail out the Big-Three. That's who Detroit has been in bed with all these years, profitting from the gas guzzling cars Detriot has built and depriving us of alternatives.
    THink about it.

    Don't look to Uncle Sam, beg Big-Oil for they're profilts.
     
  4. EZW1

    EZW1 Active Member

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    Why didn't I think of that? Big 3 and Big Oil probably have a few 'back closet' agreements from many years back, anyway.
     
  5. Kablooie

    Kablooie Member

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    A bailout won't fix anything. It will just delay the death awhile and in the meantime we all have to pay to keep them temporarily alive. Better to let them suffer their fate now and get it over with.

    And their fate wouldn't be to disappear, the company would probably be broken up and the separate entities sold off. It might be better to have several smaller companies that make American cars than one huge dinosaur that can't respond to consumer demand anyway.
     
  6. tigerpilot

    tigerpilot Member

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    Goodby to them as they now exist...
    My guess is that the government would do something to assist the existing pension fund. I'm sure that the fund has assets although not enough. Maybe a reduction in benefits like some airlines did.
    Just my $.02 worth.
    Regards...
     
  7. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    Gee-zus cah-rist, the vein on my forehead is ready to blow out

    So why is GM Canada whining to the Ontario Provincial government, and the Federal government, for money? Last time I checked, Canada had Universal Health Care, so GM can suck on the taxpayer teat at least here in Canada

    And they *still* can't make it

    Want to blame anybody for the demise of GM et al? Don't blame consumers like me who happened to buy a Toyota. Blame decades of criminally incompetent, corrupt, dumb-nice person management and union. BTW: management and unions work hand in hand, they are joined at the hip in more ways than one

    It took decades of backroom deals and backstabbing to allow the big corporations to suck every dime they could out of us, while outsourcing and building overseas

    It's about damn time these big companies spat out the taxpayer tit - it's running dry so they may soon have no choice anyway. Very ironic how when things work for big business, it's "invisible hand" this and "free market" that.

    If the average joe needs a bit of help with medical coverage, suddenly the "S" word (Socialism) or even the "C" word (Communism) is brought up. If incompetent fools manage to run a company up onto the rocks, they still get to keep their mansions, private jets, lavish perks, solid-gold renumeration + bonus, and most importantly, their lovely severance

    Gawd. I need a drink
     
  8. MR.K

    MR.K New Member

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    I have a Ford Excursion 6.0 Diesel ....55,000 miles the head gaskets are bad ....It's all over the net about this defect ,will the fix it nooooo , they want thousands to fix it and just patched it up to get it out of warranty ...Another untested product pawned off on the public .....So now I'll have to pay my taxes to bail them out..and pay to have the beast fixed...maybe I can get a gov grant too!!!... in fact ...why work at all? ......Just let the last few suckers that work and have a job pay for it all !!! ..Now that what I call change !! .........................................Still love my Prius tho....
     
  9. thepolarcrew

    thepolarcrew Senior Member

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    The government can't let em go. Who's going to build the crap they need to haul the troops around. It's the only thing that's going to save them!
     
  10. SPEEDEAMON

    SPEEDEAMON Professional Car Nut

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    If you give GM the $25B, they're going to go out of business anyway. Why not spread the money evenly to the employees and supporting industry. That's $25B divide by 2.25M or $10K per person. That's better than $0 when they go down.

    On a smaller scale, back in the nineties, Porsche almost went kaput. They went to Toyota to learn how to run their business and manufacturing efficiently. GM needs to get rid of all the cancer they have and start from a clean sheet of paper. I just don't see any amount of money could rescue them as they are.
     
  11. drewtiss

    drewtiss New Member

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    I hope so! I think they put a "new" person to do it.
     
  12. justlurkin

    justlurkin Señor Member

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    When news broke a few days ago that the carmakers were on the brink and need help to prevent 3 million jobs from being lost, I was sympathetic.

    Then I saw yesterday's Senate testimony from Wagoner, Nardelli, Mulally and Gettelfinger, and it turned my sympathy into hostility. I came away convinced we shouldn't give these nincompoops a single red cent.

    The senators pressed them time and again if they have a plan to change their industry because the old way of doing business is obviously not working. And the three CEOs and one union leader offered NOTHING. They came with no plan, kept blaming their ills on the current credit crisis, and were in deep denial.

    They have the nerve to ask for a blank check so they can continue with business as usual.

    I agree with the senators. No plan for reform, no bailout!
     
  13. Rotorhead

    Rotorhead New Member

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    Two big thumbs down here. Give them money and Chrysler will continue to build junk. Ford will continue to re-badge their failures and try to sell them under a proven model name. And last but not least GM will bring out a new line of SUV's. Detroit is no longer the Motor City. Check out the full parking lots at the Toyota and Honda factories in Ohio and Indiana. Why don't the Japanese companies build factories in Michigan? The only answer I can think of is, UAW. The Big 3 and the UAW need a serious reality check, not an infusion of tax dollars. On that note, think I'd better go take my blood pressure medication. (and go out and give my Prius a well deserved hug)

    Mike
     
  14. malorn

    malorn Senior Member

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    They have been reforming for a couple of years, eliminating well over 100,000 jobs shuttering dozens of factories, renegotiated with the UAW eliminating billlions in fixed costs per year beginning in 2010 and putting almost all r&d towards small vehicles and alternate propulsion systems. What is it you want them to do?
     
  15. Genoz World

    Genoz World ZEN-style living

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    MALORN - HOW about saving money themselves???? why go to these meetings on a PRIVATE LEAR JET that costs over $20,000 per day? The days of spend today, tomorrow will bring more money is GONE!

    Incidentally, flying commercial, $1000/first class......$300/coach

    that's what i think they should do. these arrogant ways of mismanagement cannot be supported.

    another thought............LOWER THEIR OWN SALARIES! these CEO's have an annual income in access of 15 MILLION a year! lower that and divide that amongst the companies that they are trying to save!
     
  16. malorn

    malorn Senior Member

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    In some ways I agree, but it is all just symbolic. Sometimes I have flown by private jet(timeshare) if I am really short of time. Theese guys do not have time to spend two days flying to and from everywhere they go. We are talking about avoiding the collapse of the economic base of this country and now wea are focused on 3 private jets?
     
  17. Genoz World

    Genoz World ZEN-style living

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    OF COURSE! what we're talking about is the MANAGEMENT. it's their ways of living. i completely disagree with you about taking two days to fly around. when you're down and out, you better start by changing old ways that do not work.

    IT CANNOT CONTINUE! This is the exact way of thinking that caused them to be where they are at!

    Hm,,,,,,,,,,,i hope parts will still be around for my Z06.
     
  18. malorn

    malorn Senior Member

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    What year Z06? I drove an '09 for the weekend....unbelievable. What a car.....I could not keep it under 100.
     
  19. justlurkin

    justlurkin Señor Member

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    Malorn,

    Those CEOs are asking for a blank check to continue with business as they are now.

    That is NOT good enough for this current environment. If we are in a prolonged slump, if they continue with their current way of operating they will require ANOTHER bailout in a few more months.

    And, they presented NO PLAN of guaranteeing that the taxpayer's money will be returned in full.

    I remain in agreement with the senators. No Plan, No bailout!
     
  20. malorn

    malorn Senior Member

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    Tell me what the plan should be? they have shrunk by more than 33% in the last 2.5 years.
     
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