Big invasion of privicy

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Beryl Octet @ Dec 4 2006, 05:28 AM) [snapback]357308[/snapback]</div>

This is no idle assertion. I recommend Elaine Scarry's excellent essay below for some cogent perspective:

Boston Review Oct/Nov 2002 "Citizenship in Emergency"

Meanwhile, had the Sep 11 hijackers all been subjected to strip searches with all their body cavities excavated by microscope prior their being allowed aboard, all would have passed the search without raising any eyebrows. We do ourselves great harm by continually looking to "technology" to save us from the depredations of inflamed human nature.

Mark Baird
Alameda CA

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(airportkid @ Dec 4 2006, 10:45 AM) [snapback]357472[/snapback]</div>

Yes, but if they had only looked to see that a couple of them were on the no-fly list ...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fshagan @ Dec 4 2006, 11:55 PM) [snapback]357804[/snapback]</div>

Is that true? I thought they were here on student visas etc.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Clar @ Dec 4 2006, 07:04 AM) [snapback]357347[/snapback]</div>

Sorry, information like that is kept confidential for a reason.
If you/anybody could find out your/their terror score, it wouldn't take long for a group of enterprising young terrorists to figure out how to game the system and lower their score.

 

Why don't we just take the next logical step and just make flying in planes illegal.

No airplanes means no airplanes flying into buildings.

Seriously, this is the difference between neocons and real conservatives. Real conservatives do not like nor trust Big Government. Neocons thrive on Big Brother poking their nose into everyone's business. Real conservatives value, above all else, their freedom and independence. Neocons want everyone to (as one worded it) "bend over and grab our ankles".

Are there any conservatives anymore?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sufferin' Prius Envy @ Dec 4 2006, 09:47 PM) [snapback]357830[/snapback]</div>

It was reported on NPR that the names of some suspected "terrorists" are kept off the no-fly list because the government does not want them to find out that they are suspected. Thus, while people whose names sound vaguely like the names of terrorists are prevented from flying, some terrorists are allowed onto planes to give them the false impression that the government is not on to them.

Is this supposed to make us feel safer?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Dec 5 2006, 06:57 AM) [snapback]357901[/snapback]</div>

YES!

Sounds to me like those individuals, purposely kept off the “no-fly” list, are being watched very closely . . . probably followed everywhere they go.

The anti-terrorist spies are undoubtedly gleaning more intelligence by allowing these terror suspects to believe they are able to move about the country/world unimpeded.

They don't want no local yokel TSA inspector stopping the suspect and saying, “Gaaally geeeeze, says here you be a suspicious kind of fella'. Bubba, over there, he's gonna search you up and down real good.”

P.S. They have to know who they are in order to purposely keep them off the no-fly list.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sufferin' Prius Envy @ Dec 5 2006, 10:31 AM) [snapback]358034[/snapback]</div>

That's an assumption that presumes a level of competence that our "intelligence" services have never demonstrated in the past. Clearly, you have more confidence in our government than I have.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Dec 5 2006, 02:43 PM) [snapback]358075[/snapback]</div>

So obviously you do not blame President Bush for invading Iraq based on faulty intelligence :lol:

 

Man, and this had been a pleasant thread... There you go putting words in people's mouths again, Doberman!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Dec 5 2006, 12:02 PM) [snapback]358093[/snapback]</div>

Quite the contrary! Everyone told him there were no WMDs. He put the pressure on them to change their reports. When you invade a country based on faked (not "faulty") intelligence of your own making, then there is no excuse.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Dec 5 2006, 03:02 PM) [snapback]358093[/snapback]</div>

Bush orchestrated the faulty intelligence.

I have a friend who was arrested for having sticks of dynamite
in his carry on luggage .
He was in a hurry to get to his sisters wedding after a Burning Man art project and didnt check the bottom of his bag.
He was held , appeared in court and was penalized but oddly he wasnt put on a no- fly list.
Maybe he's the one they dont want to tip off.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Dec 5 2006, 12:04 PM) [snapback]358094[/snapback]</div>

Now Eagle, Doberman often tells us not to believe him because he lies. But maybe not in so many words.

 

normally I don't like to reply on political threads....but I couldn't resist...

Did you know.....that the Hyjacker of 9/11 were in the country for over a year before 9/11 and on many occasions fly from us to middle east during that time.

As far the Iraqi campaign....did Bush fabricate intelligence to force that issue. No....he use his judgement on the best information provided to him, Just like each and everyone us does every day....you go with the best information...Now did they (the govenment) make some mistakes...oh you bet....

ok i'll stop now.....

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(amtrak115 @ Dec 5 2006, 08:49 PM) [snapback]358234[/snapback]</div>

Oh, I get it! The 9/11 hijackers were not on the "Do Not Fly" list so they could be "watched very closely" by our crack intelligence squad. Because if they WERE on the "Do Not Fly" list, they would have gone and done something really terrible, y'know?

Yup, they certainly gleaned LOTS of intelligence that way on September 11, 2001!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mojo @ Dec 5 2006, 04:40 PM) [snapback]358213[/snapback]</div>

Burning Man, art project, and dynamite?????????????? :blink: :blink: :blink:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Beryl Octet @ Dec 4 2006, 09:00 PM) [snapback]357807[/snapback]</div>

I had to look it up ... prior to 9/11, there was a list similar to the "no fly list", but it only had about a dozen peole on it. It really wasn't the type of list we have now, which contains thousands of names including some of the already-dead 9/11 hijackers. It took me a while to figure that out because there are cites to the 9/11 hijackers being "on the list", and people saying there was no list, and people saying there was a list but they weren't on it. Prior to 9/11, there was a very small list, but they weren't on it. So my statement was wrong.

CBS did a story on the list, which is 540 pages long. I had an employee who was on the list. TSA told her she was on it, and she knew she had to go to the airport early for extra screening. She had an anglo sounding name, but her physical appearance (young, blonde) was close enough that they did scrutinize her when she flew. Its not really a "no fly" list, but a "pay special attention to these people" list.

Someone indicated there are thousands of people not allowed to fly, but I don't think that's true. I think the people are singled out for extra screening, and based on what I've seen (and my employee's experience), the list is probably for names and aliases of people we want to take a closer look at. Because bad people usually pick common names, it inconveniences more regular people.

But I don't blame the government. I blame the damned terrorists (may their names be blotted out), who rot in hell in flames that burn but do not consume.

I don't really care that there are dead people on the list. Dead people won't hurt us, and it won't delay us in the lines if they never show up. But it does show the list isn't carefully kept clean and purged of names routinely, and that does lead to questions about whether or not the TSA is up to the task. Are they adding names like they should? Probably not. Like any government bureaucracy, they are bound to be inefficient and concerned more about self preservation than they are about list accuracy (for example, a bureaucrat would be slow to remove names in case the next day someone with that name did something: they would get blamed. So its easier to include every name possible, and never remove any of them.)

Contracting with VISA or MasterCard for screening may have better results!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Dec 5 2006, 11:43 AM) [snapback]358075[/snapback]</div>

A sleeping giant has been awoken and filled with a terrible resolve.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Dec 5 2006, 11:43 AM) [snapback]358075[/snapback]</div>

Clearly I don't hate our government!

I have much more confidence in our government providing better security since 9/11.

If not our government, who? :huh: