1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Bird deaths by human agency

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by tochatihu, Apr 28, 2019.

  1. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    8,995
    3,507
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    Candaa geese apparently guard their chicks aggresively, but with a clever enough cat...
     
  2. iplug

    iplug Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2012
    2,450
    1,698
    0
    Location:
    Rocklin, CA
    Vehicle:
    Other Electric Vehicle
    Model:
    ----USA----
    What he said.:D

    Going to have to add this to my favorite quotes.:)
     
  3. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    8,995
    3,507
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    Not supported by much data, but I have an impression that many chicks die from bird-on-bird violence. Gulls and skuas come off looking particularly evil in 'those' videos.
     
  4. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    8,995
    3,507
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    Regarding oil and gas industry fluid waste pits.

    A page referring to USFWS studies suggests 500 thousand to 1 million birds per year

    Bird mortality in oil and gas production facilities can be prevented: Mountain-Prairie Region Press Releases: U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service:

    Video linked here:

    Contaminants | Oil pits

    Says the same but adds that it was 2 million/year before impoundment procedures were improved. Circa 1990s

    I could only add that recent expansion in fracking activities might have increased this. Or, if they bird proof structures well, it might not have increased at all.

    PS: The video is recommended despite its 64 megabyte size.
     
  5. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    21,750
    11,328
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    They aren't as easy to control as dogs and raptors.

    Many cat species have a social structure similar to lions', just much more spread out. Females will have their own territory, with an alpha male's encompassing that of several females.

    Lynx? But I think they won't like the noise of an airport.

    Bird feeders might also support a population larger than the local resources.

    Cats are only part of the problem facing native song birds. They are also facing heavy competition from aliens; starlings and house sparrows.
     
  6. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    8,995
    3,507
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    Starlings are pretty amazing (not disputing their invasive status) and occasionally overload jet engines' maximum particulate ingestion rates.

    Sometimes I wonder about how competing birds' environments changed when passenger pigeons were extirpated. How jet engines might possibly have coped...

    ==
    We have the bird communities we have, not the ones we wish we had.
     
  7. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2018
    6,840
    6,484
    1
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius c
    Model:
    Two
    A bird died at my house last night. Gallus gallus. A chicken. My wife and I have raised and kept backyard chickens for a few years now. We recently bought some hatchlings to rejuvenate our flock, but one didn't make it. Happens from time to time. I haven't been home in a couple of weeks so I didn't even get a chance to meet them yet.
     
  8. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    8,995
    3,507
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    First-posted estimate for US birds does not include 9 billion chickens per year and a quarter billion turkeys. Pretty sure they outweigh all unmanaged species.
     
  9. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2018
    6,840
    6,484
    1
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius c
    Model:
    Two
    I have cats too, and i manage the cross-species introductions such that they don't become predator/prey relationships.

    Remarkable how well they get along, and the scorecard shows that the chickens are almost as good at catching mice as the cats.
     
  10. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    8,995
    3,507
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
  11. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    8,995
    3,507
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    Bald eagle recovery (in CONUS 48 states) is more frequently told, they being a National symbol:

    Bald Eagle Fact Sheet

    100,000 -> 1000 -> 20,000

    ==
    I was at a water hole in California desert with a hard core birder. He was looking at little tweety birds. A bald eagle flew over really low. I could only say "uhhh.ahhh.ehhh" or words to that effect. Haliaeetus are impressive, especially when flying near enough to hear wing noise.
     
  12. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    17,122
    10,047
    90
    Location:
    Western Washington
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    "Fast forward to today: 7 million turkeys trot, cluck and scratch around North America, occupying almost all suitable habitat and even expanding beyond their original range." [emphasis added]

    I've seen the above emphasized item presented as a criticism of turkey reintroductions, supposedly catering more to hunters than to real habitat and natural wildlife restoration efforts. Not sure what to make of that view.

    I encountered my very first wild turkey twenty years ago, on the family farm that I moved to more than fifty years ago. It was an initially shocking encounter, as the turkey exploded unannounced out of its perch into flight, far louder than the otherwise similar sudden takeoffs of ruffed grouse. Now, it is normal to see 10 to 50 at once out in the fields, or sometimes in the house yard as they walk uphill to roost overnight in the timber above. Mostly separate from the cattle, but a few among the cattle too, foraging for uneaten scraps of grain hay or undigested seeds in manure. And leaving their own smaller calling cards.

    Last month was obviously courting season, with numerous males strutting and fanning their tails while the hens appeared to mostly be feeding and ignoring them.
     
  13. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    8,995
    3,507
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    A slightly shorter time ago I saw a wild turkey flock crossing a road at N rim Grand Canyon. They got to the other side :)

    I was happy. Did not exit Prius to alarm them (or get my eyes poked out) so they were happy also. No opinion on whether they are 'over spreading'.

    Snuffling around internet suggest they are second most hunted in US after deer. Can this be true? More than ducks??
     
  14. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    8,995
    3,507
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    calling cards@32. Does not take much to trigger me :)

    wild-turkey scat.jpg

    I've no idea how PruisChat huggers have gone this long without a poop-identification thread.
     
    fuzzy1 likes this.
  15. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2018
    6,840
    6,484
    1
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius c
    Model:
    Two
    Possibly the hunting mode is throwing you? I don't hunt, but according to my cousin most turkey hunters are archers while most deer hunters use rifles.
     
  16. noonm

    noonm Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2019
    575
    595
    0
    Location:
    NJ
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Cats and buildings regularly make the top two on lists of top bird killers that I've seen. Putting the birds killed by turbines in context with all human sources of bird killings is a good counter to "turbines kill birds, ban turbines".

    Its the same type of argument that says EVs are too dangerous because they read about a Tesla battery catching fire. Its almost too easy to point out that they regularly drive on top of a container of flammable liquid that cause more car-fire related fatalities per year than have ever occurred for EVs since forever.
     
  17. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    8,995
    3,507
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    Decorating windows so they don't appear to be 'fly throughs' for bird brains is doable by individuals. Predation by cats seems more nuanced, as they may be providing rat-control services.

    Wind turbines need to be optimized in appearance, siting (migratory flyways) and operating schedule (migratory timings). They are part of electricity supply system as are towers and lines. Here, public involvement is indirect.

    ==
    When riding buses in rural China, I'm always looking for hawks and falcons. Presence indicates that local habitats are not too badly messed up. They also indicate that small birds must live in fear, but that's how systems were 'designed'.
     
  18. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2006
    11,314
    3,588
    1
    Location:
    Northern VA (NoVA)
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Unconvincing...but I am not defending cats as they do kill too many birds, and I know birds can flock by the hundreds into a building to their death.
     
  19. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2018
    6,840
    6,484
    1
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius c
    Model:
    Two
    You're looking for the local apex predator (light weight) to verify that there are still enough other things to feed it? Just trying to make sure I understand your test.
     
  20. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    8,995
    3,507
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    "local apex predator" That is correct. Too much trouble to count all the little birds so I let hawks do it. As my agents.

    Snakes already ~extirpated but that's another story.