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Block voltages

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by jgurley, Apr 19, 2017.

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  1. jgurley

    jgurley Junior Member

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    I've had a sudden rash or DTCs of late (I'm convinced it was a deep puddle), but P0A80 and P3012 (Block 2 weak) are among them. With 215K on the '05, it's not extraordinary, but to occur among a half dozen other codes is suspicious. Includes C1259, C1310, P3000 as well.

    Anyway, the scanner shows Block1 & 2 at 16.50v, blocks 3 thru 13 at 18.10 (or thereabouts) and block 14 at 17.5v. These values are freeze data from when the code was thrown, so the engine was running and the car moving. Are these values expected?

    Is there a way to to get "current" block voltages from TechStream when the ICE is not running?
     
    #1 jgurley, Apr 19, 2017
  2. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    blocks 1 and 14 will normally have a lower voltage than the rest of the pack. But if the ECU picked up a weak block, it's usually a correct diagnosis of a problem.
     
    #2 JC91006, Apr 19, 2017
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  3. jgurley

    jgurley Junior Member

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    I've got the battery out of the car and on the bench, and the first four cells all measure 7.35v wile the rest (including block 14) measure 7.86v or so. Any advice about replacing all four cells, just Block 2 cells (the DTC complaint) or the whole battery? I'm selling the car, but I don't want to sell a lemon. The fourth alternative is to call CarTalk and have them haul it away.

    There's lots of corrosion on the buss bar nuts.
     
    #3 jgurley, May 2, 2017
  4. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    Your battery just needs to be cleaned and charged back up. I don't think you have any issues with it.
    Clean the copper bus bars using Vinegar, soak it overnight. Do not soak the nuts
     
    #4 JC91006, May 2, 2017
  5. jgurley

    jgurley Junior Member

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    I'll give it a whirl...
     
    #5 jgurley, May 2, 2017
  6. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    You would actually need a grid charger or someone with the capability to do it. When the battery is inside the car, it limits the charge to only 80% full, you'll never get a full charge

    How rare do you see 3 blocks going bad at once? Unless this batteries had a chance to sit long periods, 3 blocks failing is rare.....but of course possible

    I guess a load test is in order for the questionable blocks

    SM-N900P ?
     
    #6 JC91006, May 2, 2017
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  7. strawbrad

    strawbrad http://minnesotahybridbatteries.com

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    Yes, click on "Data List" when in the HV Battery section of Techstream. It always takes two times to get into the live data. The first will error out. Just hit retry.

    I have to disagree with JC91006. Your battery needs to be rebuilt. You have readings showing three different pairs of modules being weak. Static voltages of bad modules can bounce back.

    While looking at live data ( block voltages) with Teachstream do a forced charge and discharge. The weak modules will clearly stand out.

    Brad
     
    #7 strawbrad, May 6, 2017
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  8. jgurley

    jgurley Junior Member

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    The car did sit for about three months this winter. It's disassembled for now, as I wait for a DC6 charge/conditioner to arrive.
     
    #8 jgurley, May 6, 2017
  9. strawbrad

    strawbrad http://minnesotahybridbatteries.com

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    I would say two modules in different blocks failing at the same time is common. The OP's block 14 running .35 volts under the rest is suspect.

    Cycling and load testing of all the modules is needed.

    Brad
     
    #9 strawbrad, May 7, 2017
  10. jgurley

    jgurley Junior Member

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    So I've conditioned the four cells that were under performing, and they're all sitting at 8.15v after 24 hours. The remaining cells are still at 7.70v or so. Do I need to have all the voltages matching or can I re-assemble the thing and give it a try?
     
    #10 jgurley, May 10, 2017
  11. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    You should at a minimum, load test the 4 that you've charged. That will help you determine if they are bad BEFORE you put them back in.

    If you have the time, why not recondition all of them and make all the voltages match?
     
    #11 JC91006, May 10, 2017
  12. jgurley

    jgurley Junior Member

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    That process would involve discharge/charge cycles, then discharging the best until they match the worst (assuming the worst is a good cell)?

    What is the recommended charge and discharge currents for the process?
     
    #12 jgurley, May 12, 2017
  13. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    Maybe discharge the modules to the same level as the other ones. Then assemble and try. Fingers crossed.
     
    #13 JC91006, May 12, 2017
  14. jgurley

    jgurley Junior Member

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    I charged all 28 cells to 9.0v, and after a day of settling to 8.1-8.2v, I reassembled the pack, put it back in the car, then drove about 20 miles with no battery warnings. The live data on Techstream showed block two was actually a little higher than the other blocks.

    Unfortunately, the car threw a P0301 (Cylinder 1 misfire), so I swapped the coils between 1 and 2, and the code changed to P0302, so I ordered a new coil. I either damaged it when I changed the plugs or the big puddle forced some water into the plug hole.
     
    #14 jgurley, May 14, 2017
  15. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    Sounds like you've got it under control.
     
    #15 JC91006, May 14, 2017
  16. jandjautoworks

    jandjautoworks New Member

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    what is the meaning of a negative value on techstream for a battery block? 39605709_516731975431281_3155124228802478080_n.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

    #16 jandjautoworks, Aug 21, 2018
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  17. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    You need to examine the voltage sensing wire(s) for evidence of corrosion or breakage. Be aware that corrosion may not be that evident and may go a significant distance along the wire under the insulation.

    If you are in trade and care about your business reputation, just buy a replacement wiring kit from Toyota and replace the whole lot, but at least the voltage sense wiring. You may need to clean up corrosion in general while in there.
     
    #17 dolj, Aug 22, 2018
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  18. ericbecky

    ericbecky Hybrid Battery Hero

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    Maybe you forgot to reattach some nuts?

    Or maybe you forgot to use and inch-pound torque wrench to properly tighten the nuts?
    If you just guessed at whatever "felt tight enough", it is likely you were wrong. :)
    You do not want them over tightened or undertightened. Can cause arcing and possible fire.
     
    #18 ericbecky, Aug 22, 2018
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  19. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    ^^^^ +1 to that advice too.

    Eric know his stuff.
     
    #19 dolj, Aug 22, 2018
  20. jandjautoworks

    jandjautoworks New Member

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    What are the torque specs?



     
    #20 jandjautoworks, Aug 22, 2018
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