BMW i3 - Why this little EV has big potential

Discussion in 'EV (Electric Vehicle) Discussion' started by ggood, Dec 23, 2013.

  1. ggood

    ggood Senior Member

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  2. Flying White Dutchman

    Flying White Dutchman Senior Member

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    mm dont get the following
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    a striking contrast to many other contemporary EVs, which make do with limited features and functionality to keep costs down.
    --
    i dont see the leaf like that
    and the thinkgs they talk about lika a satnav and adaptive cruise control are nothing special

    then again the car body is.
     
  3. ggood

    ggood Senior Member

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    Yeah, as usual in this type of article, some of what is said is either nonsense or nothing special; still, it does show they were doing their best to think outside the box (e.g., the paddle shifter, and the skinny tires and thin seats). Also, that they are using it to drive innovation that bleeds through to the rest of the company and models, similar to Prius and Toyota.
     
  4. PriusC_Commuter

    PriusC_Commuter Active Member

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    So, I assume this car will get white HOV stickers in California since it's an EV, but if you add the optional gasoline-powered generator does that mean that it will get the green HOV stickers instead since it kind of becomes a plug-in hybrid?
     
  5. sosarahsays

    sosarahsays Member

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    Did I miss where it said how far it went per charge? That is still my biggest complaint about pure EVs--very few people have a lifestyle that could support only owning an EV. Even if you do mostly short-distance city driving, what about if you want to go somewhere on the weekend? You have to plan your route to hit charging stations and sit for awhile while the car juices up? I think EVs are best for two car city families with a regular car for long haul jaunts.

    Also, I would imagine those "thin seats" and stark interior would turn off die-hard BMW fans... And the price would likely turn off everyone else. It'll be interesting to see how it sells.
     
  6. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    I believe BMW had to agree to having the hybrid mode limited in power output. The gas range couldn't be farther than the EV range also. So it might get the white stickers no matter. It is referred to as a BEVx by CARB.
     
  7. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Heard else where that it is around 80 miles.
     
  8. PriusC_Commuter

    PriusC_Commuter Active Member

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    The article claims 118-miles per charge, online I saw it goes up to 100 miles for EV version and 186 total miles with the range extender gas generator.
     
  9. sosarahsays

    sosarahsays Member

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    Hmmm, so 80-118 miles. Ehhhh... I think these car companies are underestimating city drivers and I stand by what I said above about pure EVs being most suitable to two car families. When I was car shopping a Nissan salesman tried to sell me on a Leaf because I am primarily a short-distance city driver. What he (and manufacturers) don't realize is that sometimes (often, judging by city people I know with cars), people who live in cities continue to own cars so we can escape the city and go on longer distance adventures on weekends. Having to stop every +/- 100 miles to charge the car would put a serious damper on that. ... And why buy a $45k car if it requires planning to stop for charges? It would be such an annoyance to drive! I'd rather have the 1-series hatchback or a Lexus ct200h. Or keep my Prius. ;)
     
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  10. PriusC_Commuter

    PriusC_Commuter Active Member

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    That's a strange loophole. I wonder what originally prompted California to include that.
     
  11. finman

    finman Senior Member

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    The point is there is a choice for those who can and want to go all electric. Viable choices. not golf carts. Change is coming and my next vehicle will NOT have a gas engine. those who an all-electric vehicle will not work have other hybrid/plugin hybrid choices. And that's the word. choices. Many drivers, many choices. I, too, wish electric cars had the energy density of gasoline, the range, etc.. i wish gasoline had a lower impact on the environment. where is that magic middle ground? it comes down to compromise and choice. I have felt no compromises for the past 10 years in Prius driving. But I had a choice to try this hybrid thing out. it was (and apparently still is) not everyone's choice. More electric, zero gas (to steal part of GMs volt slogan).
     
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  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    fluff article that appears to have been written by bmw for cnet.
     
  13. orenji

    orenji Senior Member

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    BMW - Break My Wallet.
     
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  14. massparanoia

    massparanoia Active Member

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    Brings More Women
     
  15. orenji

    orenji Senior Member

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    In the 80's the Becker radio was always being stolen out of BMW's, BMW stood for break my windows!
     
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  16. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    Haven't had a chance to read the article yet, but 118 miles is on an inflated European cycle. See i3 Driving Dynamics: What A Disappointment - Page 4. I know I'd seen other posts about this subject before, but can't find them now. Found more at My Nissan Leaf Forum • View topic - Official BMW i3 thread and My Nissan Leaf Forum • View topic - Official BMW i3 thread but I can't find the post right now w/the scan/screenshot of the official BMW stats.

    The '13 Leaf w/a 75 mile EPA rating gets "124 miles" on the above inflated test, so I suspect the i3's EPA rated range will be similar to that of the Leaf's, if not lower.

    Found it: My Nissan Leaf Forum • View topic - Official BMW i3 thread.
     
  17. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

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    I think the car will be a game changer!

    It's a BMW and will be taken seriously. The car is expensive BUT not that bad. It's the same price as the original Leaf was (almost to the penny) and the same as the top end Leaf 2.0. It's also cheaper - significantly - than the UK Ford Focus EV. Even with the optional range extender it's cheaper than the Focus EV. You can tell Ford don't want EV's to be a success can't you :) Also, £25,500 for the base version after the grant reflects with £21,845 for the base Prius or £20,550 for the base Honda Insight.

    The i3 is a city car, hence its size. It will probably sell rather well here. This UK review might answer a few more questions you have;


    New BMW i3 (13 on) Review - Summary | Parkers
    (the quoted price is including 20% vat and also before the £5,000 government grant)

    If this car is a flop, then I fear the whole EV game is dead. Nissan are struggling to almost give the Leaf 2.0 away. Renault haven't made triple digit sales of their offerings! And this is in a land where petrol costs over $8 a US gallon.

    My personal view is the fixation with a 100 mile maximum range (read 60 in winter). It's no use. I want at least 200 miles (150 in winter?) as that gives you flexibility or a buffer if there's a diversion etc. If a battery pack costs £5,000, wouldn't it be better to increase it by 50% to £7,500 and give people a 150/170 mile range? Why are all the traditional manufacturers sticking with this 120 MAX range? It's useless.
     
  18. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    ^^^
    Your market is quite different than ours. Although US Leaf sales are short of original expectations, US Leaf sales have passed 40K units ( Nissan: “It’s Official, We Now Have Over 40,000 Nissan LEAF Owners in the US!”) and worldwide are somewhere past 87K ( Video: Nissan Commercial Touts Passing 87,000 LEAFs Sold Worldwide). Nissan-Renault passed 100K ZEVs worldwide 5 months ago (Renault-Nissan Alliance Sells its 100,000th Zero-Emission Car - Nissan Online Newsroom). Leaf is still the world's best selling BEV.

    Cheapest Leaf here starts at $28.8K, for the S trim level (before tax rebate and any state incentives). For CA, if you bought, you could be eligible for $7.5K of Federal tax credit and $2.5k of CVRP (CA rebate), taking you down to a net of ~$18.8K before taxes and fees.

    i3 starts at $41,350 (BMW USA News) and would be eligible for the same $10K of incentives.

    BMW sells hardly any cars in the US compared to Nissan or the "Big 3". See 2012 - Don't Call It A Comeback Edition - Autoblog and November 2013: Gobble Gobble Edition - Autoblog.

    BTW, Ford doesn't seem to be trying very hard w/ZEVs either. See the chart at the end of the article (before the comments) at November 2013 Plug-In Electric Vehicle Sales Report Card.
     
  19. Flying White Dutchman

    Flying White Dutchman Senior Member

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    giving the leafs away? only thing i see is that the battery is now on lease so the base model is a lot cheaper
    but thats only because the battery is no longer included
     
  20. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

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    But also massive discounts so that one can buy a brand new Leaf for £12,000!?!?! Even if you do have to lease the battery, that is almost half the cost of the Prius. Similar discounts apply to the full Leaf inc battery.

    The Fluence is a dud. Nice car, but just not selling. You can pick one up for £6,000 at 12 months old. That's a bargain.