BMW i3 - Why this little EV has big potential

Discussion in 'EV (Electric Vehicle) Discussion' started by ggood, Dec 23, 2013.

  1. Mike500

    Mike500 Senior Member

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    Not the same. I can stand to lose several thousand dollars but not the cost of replacing a home.

    I bit the bullet on the $6,000 loss on the 1995 Mazda, but over the past 45 years of car ownership, that was very little to lose. I'll take my chances.
     
  2. massparanoia

    massparanoia Active Member

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    Sure it is. Insurance is insurance.


    Playing the insurance game is like going to a Casino. Every once in a while they pay out, but at the end of the day the House always wins. ;)
     
  3. massparanoia

    massparanoia Active Member

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    Good. I'll pm you my email address and you can paypal it to me...
     
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  4. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    AFAIK, most of the BMWs sold here are made in Germany and some from South Africa (BMW Plant Rosslyn). There are certain models that are built at BMW's only plant in the US (AFAIK). See Plant Spartanburg Vehicle Models | BMW US Factory .

    I've noticed in the past, from glancing at stuff like BMW 3 Series (E90) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and BMW 3 Series (F30) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, the US wouldn't get very low model number (small-engined BMWs). It was only very recently that we even started seeing a 2.0L 4. For the longest time, during the E46 times (BMW 3 Series (E46) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia), the smallest was a pretty wimpy inline 6 found on 325i and 328i. The 318ti was briefly sold here and was a total joke. I laughed whenever I saw one on the road.

    Here are some examples of horrible BMW reliability (my Consumer Reports issues are loaned out right now and I don't have a chance to dig around online):
    MY350Z.COM Forums - View Single Post - Anyone here own a 135i?
    MY350Z.COM Forums - View Single Post - Anyone here own a 135i?
    MY350Z.COM Forums - View Single Post - Anyone here own a 135i?
    MY350Z.COM Forums - View Single Post - Anyone here own a 135i?
    MY350Z.COM Forums - View Single Post - Anyone here own a 135i?


    As for prices, per
    BMW 1 Series Overview - BMW North America
    , 1-series starts out at $31,500. Per
    BMW 3 Series Overview - BMW North America
    , 3-series starts out at $32,750. I don't shop for BMW as I don't care, but I'd always heard good luck finding one w/minimal equipment. Supposedly what you'd find on lots is bloated up w/options.

    Prius liftback starts at $24,200 (Hybrid Cars | Toyota Prius 2014) and has an excellent reliability record here. And yes, you can find Prius Twos on the lot.

    You can take a look at top selling vehicles and where BMWs rank at 2012 U.S. Vehicle Rankings - Top 266 Best-Selling Vehicles In America - Every Vehicle Ranked - GOOD CAR BAD CAR.

    I live in California, which has a stilted auto sales mix vs. the US average. Take a look at http://www.cncda.org/secure/GetFile.aspx?ID=2626 from California New Car Dealers Association. You'll notice that Toyota (w/all its brands) has the biggest share in CA (21.9%) w/Prius family being the top selling vehicle in CA. BMW (w/all its brands) has a 6% share.
     
  5. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    Oh yes, and BTW, the 128i is and 328i are considered subcompact cars per EPA size classification. Prius is midsized and 328i sedan is compact. See Specs tab of Compare Side-by-Side.
     
  6. massparanoia

    massparanoia Active Member

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    Not a BMW advocate by any means but just to play devils advocate, a quick stroll through google can produce plenty of people whining about a prius. Top 650 Complaints and Reviews about Toyota Prius

    Most people tend to only make the effort to review something when they have something negative to say...

    That being said, I think the i3 is a pretty neat concept, but the 80-100 miles range is useless to me so....
     
  7. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    Well, for Consumer Reports reliability reports, they have to receive at least 100 responses for a given model year of a given make to even publish data. Most Toyotas and Lexuses (Priuses included) do pretty darn well almost every model year, year over year. BMW? Some are horrible and consistently horrible. Most of the rest are hit or miss.

    As for 80-100 miles, I suspect the REx-less BMW i3 will receive (wild guesses) somewhere between 68 to 85 miles for an EPA range rating, w/it most likely being <=80 miles.
     
  8. massparanoia

    massparanoia Active Member

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    Prius is "midsized" because it is a hatchback. Its interior measurements (front/rear leg room, head room, etc) compare closely to a Corolla. The only thing significantly larger than a corolla is rear hip room.
     
  9. massparanoia

    massparanoia Active Member

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    Yeah I was figuring something along the lines of around 85 miles too.

    As far as consumer reports goes, around here they only seem to be used when they can help an argument. Didn't they just publish some negative article on the Prius recently that got everyones panties in a bunch?
     
  10. jcal0820

    jcal0820 the 'Stan

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    Test drove an i3 during the recent LA Auto Show. BMW had a huge kiosk outside the LA convention center, and a huge fleet of i3's that people off the street could test drive in their own, as part of a massive PR campaign to promote the i3's for their next year launch. Drove it a couple of times around downtown LA. Impressed with the immediate and punchy torque, and amused by that EV motor 'whirl', sounds like a remote controlled toy car on steroids. If they would drop the $, I would actually consider getting one.[​IMG]


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  11. Mike500

    Mike500 Senior Member

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    Good. I'll pm you my email address and you can paypal it to me...
    So, you can waste it on "an extended warranty insurance policy?"

    I'd rather give it to the local rescue mission to feed the poor.

    I used to live in the State of the Virgins, too.
     
  12. massparanoia

    massparanoia Active Member

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    Beats paying $5000 for a new engine ;)

    It's just like my auto, life, homeowners or health insurance. May not need it, but nice to know it's there.
     
  13. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    Yeah, some folks seemed upset about the Prius c non-recommendation, because it scored too low in their tests to recommend. Then there was them pulling recommendations on some Toyotas due to IIHS small-offset crash tests results (aka moving the goal posts).

    Their reviews are one thing but reliability reports are just reports of stats from reader surveys. They're totally separate except that in order to earn a recommendation, it has to do decently enough in their review and have at least average reliability.

    All Prius models have done well on CR's reliability stats. The Prius has also done quite well in owner satisfaction surveys (at one point, it was at the top for 5 years in a row: CTV.ca | CTV News, Shows and Sports - Canadian Television). Again, this is from reader surveys.

    As for jcal0820's test drive, I wish we had some test drives at the recent SF Auto Show (that was after/overlapped w/LA Auto Show). I know some folks who went down there and posted about their test drives, including some videos.

    In contrast, at the SF Auto Show, BMW's i3 presence was puzzling. There was a single unit on the show floor, locked up so nobody could even sit in it. Forget about even any test drives. Oddly, the i3 was on the cover of the newsprint "program" you could pick up. Some folks at a BMW dealer in Fremont had some test drives, semi-recently, but alas, I believe I was busy and couldn't go.
     
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  14. Mike500

    Mike500 Senior Member

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    No, I didn't spend $5,000 on a new engine. I spent $25,000 of 1998 dollars on a NEW car.
     
  15. massparanoia

    massparanoia Active Member

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    I would have thought SF would be a key market for test drives, go figure...
     
  16. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    Yes. Exactly. It was VERY puzzling to me.
     
  17. jcal0820

    jcal0820 the 'Stan

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    [​IMG][​IMG]

    ...Out of all the test drives at the LA Auto Show, BMW's i3 kiosk had the biggest footprint, like 30 i3's available to drive. None had that optional Generator, which theoretically can extend range by another 60 or so miles. But that's just a generator, not motor, & only serves to give more juice to the traction battery. Costs 4 grand more, is nothing more than a 2 stroke BMW motorcycle motor, can doesn't allow for unlimited range like a lot of 'plug in' hybrids are promoting. Don't think it'll be worth it.


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  18. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    Yeah, as I said, I'd seen reports from folks down in LA for the show. Wow.

    As for the REx engine, I doubt it's a 2-stroke. If it were, it'd be a horrible polluter. Maybe you meant 2-cylinder?
     
  19. jcal0820

    jcal0820 the 'Stan

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    Possible, will just Google it. Tech on site described it, maybe misspoke. But it's the same as one of BMW's 1000cc or so motorcycle engines. And apparently, you have to manually engage it at the optimal time. For instance, if the battery is under 10 percent left, the 'generator' won't be able to adequately 'generate' the battery, and goes into limp mode. Was told you have to plan your travel/route carefully, engage the generator around 30 to 40 percent of batt life if you want the actual real 'range extension.'


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  20. massparanoia

    massparanoia Active Member

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    Saw this article on the range extender.

    BMW i3 range extender first drive Review | Autocar

    Apparently it's a 647cc engine based on their scooter design and has a 9 liter fuel tank.

    According to the article, the engine is able to turn on and off as the car needs it and boosts range to somewhere between 136 and 180 miles.
     
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