break in and first oil change

Break-in is discussed on page 163 of the Owner's Manual. It's exactly as I described except hard braking needs to be avoided only during the first 200 miles.

 

Good question... Just to play devil's advocate, I wonder if the fact that the ICE is frequently cycling on and off would qualify as "extreme conditions"? IOW, would the frequent on/offs actually necessitate more frequent oil changes, or at least offset the time that the ICE is off?
I doubt it, just thinking "out loud".
Also, at least with my driving, I'd guess the ICE is on at least 80% of the time... I'd be curious to see stats on this.
In fact, I agree with you that most oil change intervals are too frequent - I've done quite a bit of reading, and oil analyses on two of my vehicles, both of which suggest that modern synthetic oil basically doesn't break down. Even modern engines do wear, though, and dust/metal shavings/contaminants/particulate junk do make their way into the oil.

That's exactly what I did for my early oil change (~2Kmi) on my v. I've read recent reports (from other Toyotas, not Prii) of people taking apart their oil filter after the first 5K mi, and finding numerous metal shavings lodged in the filter element. IF any machining imperfections, burs, whatever are going to dislodge, I'd like to get them out of my engine. The cost of the filter and half a quart of oil is worth the peace of mind, or at least it satisfies my paranoia.

For the last several years, I've done filter-only changes at every other interval for my non-hybrid vehicles. Same rationale - the oil is fine; I just want to remove the particulates. I did oil analyses on both my Vibe (after 3K miles on oil) and my Scion (after 5K miles), and in both cases, it came back that the oil could go at least another interval and still be in good shape. Viscosity, presence of additives, etc. were all within normal ranges. The only thing that came up was some particulate matter, so I do like to change out the filter regularly.

Andy

 

when i was young and belonging to a hot rod club, people outside the club used to say, "break it in fast, and it will be fast" jerks !! it will be ruined.

 

For all the early oil changes done by contributors, none can demonstrate any benefit to the vehicle of doing oil changes outside the schedule provided by Toyota (a change schedule that is standard among most vehicle manufacturers).
The only thing being relieved is the friction and wear in the brainpan of the vehicle owner.

 

Does this count?
Gunk in filter of new Scion at first oil change
Not a Prius, but the Scion xD has a very similar (Toyota 1.8L) engine.

There will probably never be PROOF that people should do early oil changes, but seeing pictures like the ones above make me think it's not a total waste of time. I think the filter from the early change on my v is still around - I'll see if it hasn't gone out with the trash yet, and then see if I can get any informative pictures.
Andy

 

no, it doesn't count! As there's no evidence that the items in the filter made one mile of difference in the life of the vehicle. Nor do you know the condition of the NEW filter 1000 miles later.
The "evidence" provided in groups like this is anecdotal and of a VERY small sample size. Further, there is no consensus even among this small group as to which arbitrary oil change interval is best...there can't be because there is no way to provide any kind of test that verifies any benefit! So against the collective wisdom of 50 owners, you must weigh the collective experience of a dozen manufacturers who make millions of vehicles.
What IS consistent is that when prodded to perform an arbitrary oil change, even at the owners expense, Toyota service departments seem to universally advise against, but sometimes relent just to appease a customer.What's also consistent is owners doing oil changes outside of recommended interval just "feel" that the interval is too long. ow do you decide? 100mi? 200? why not every fill up?
In my opinion, it's just an owners way of feeling some kind of control over a device that they used to be able to service themselves. we used to adjust timing, change timing chains, adjust valve shims, distributors, carb adjustments...and now we're reduced to air filters and oil changes.

Synthetic oils don't break down, and modern engines are wonders...when was the last time you heard of a motor blowing up? How many posts have their been on this website about an engine seizing or an oil related failure? without looking I'm going to guess 0. Look at the oil you're replacing, it's new, and it's thinner than vegetable oil! Hell you could probably run the car 5kmi without any oil in it at all. Again I can predict that in the near future this will not be a user-serviceable item. MB no longer puts a drain plug in their cars(and use a 13kmi interval for all oil changes), and you can imagine the stress this causes on MB forums.

 

My dealer will do an oil change every 5K along with tire rotation. The one thing that worries me is that every other oil change is done with regular oil and the other with synthetic. I don't think this is a good idea. I would think that I should stick with synthetic on all oil changes. What does this forum think? Thx

 

I think that sounds wacky. The manual specifically calls for synthetic oil, and the dealer wants to use regular? I'd rather do normal (10K mile) intervals with full synthetic, rather than short intervals with non-synthetic oil. And personally, I'd go elsewhere for service.
Good luck,
Andy

 

As Critic mentioned, 10k miles is the minium recommended oil change interval for normal use. 5k for special circumstances. In the US (and perhaps Canada.) Never mind there are different intervals for the same car in different countries that are not of the 10k mile interval.

My question to the 10k-miles-like-Toyota-says-or-I'll-call-you-names crowd is...why are your knickers getting in such a twist if somebody wants to change oil more often than you do? Whatever the miles (or even every tank), it's not like we're sending you (collective you) the bill.

I don't see the big deal.

I DO see it as one of two main things. Either every qt of oil is the precious blood of Gaia, or you're validating your own thoughts/decisions by forcing them on everyone else.

Or are there others?

 

From the Toyota.com website:

https://auth2.toyota.com/owners/web/pages/faq?category=Synthetic%20Oil

"If 0W-20 synthetic oil is not available, 5W-20 petroleum-based oil may be used. However, it must be replaced at 5000 miles with 0W-20 synthetic oil."

So I guess it is OK... but I'm wondering if leaving the 0w-20 synthetic oil from 5000 miles to 10000 miles rather than replacing it with dino oil wouldn't be better?

 

I wouldn't bother with 5w-20 - this motor is made for synthetic 0w-20 and I wouldn't allow my dealer to put in anything different. The wording suggests that using 5w-20 is a band-aid if 0w-20 really can't be found. 10k oil changes are completely safe with 0w-20 to boot, so in the end it saves you money.

Before I got my C was buying 0w-20 from oilchangekits.com. They've got a BOGO deal going on now so I got two kits of 0w-20 for $38 plus shipping. Why use dino when synthetic is this cheap?

 

I find the logic of finding metal in the filter as a reason to change the oil kind of, well, odd. This is, after all, what the filter is for. What should cause the filter to be replaced is that it has captured enough junk to impede oil flow - and say what you want, a couple of shavings isn't going to make a difference in that regard.

What actually matters is the buildup of combustion byproducts in the oil and in the filter. It is absolutely correct that modern synthetic oil does not break down like traditional oil used to. What actually matters these days is the change in pH over time and the buildup of crud. I do not know, but I strongly suspect, that as a result of the prius acting to warm the engine as quickly as possible as well as the low compression/high expansion engine cycle this is reduced as is the other engine oil killer - accumulation of moisture. Again, that last part is conjecture on my part.

 

Old school thinking don't apply to the new technology! Engine are design to run cleaner longer and better! Hybrid engine has less duty cycle! Sythetic oil perform better last much longer! Just follow manufactures guidlines they are much more knowledgeable about the car than we are.

 

unless you plan on keeping your car beyond mfg warranty.

 

Yup: at location "A", change it yearly or 10,000 miles. At location "B", change it 6 months or 8000 km's (~5000 miles).

 

...but the engineers (lawyers) at Toyota know what's best.

 

U.S. oil is better then Canadian oil

 

Yeah, well...: are litres are bigger than your quarts.

 

Well that explains the earlier oil change cycle, you need to drain out the overfill sooner then later!

 

I come from a car and engine (Porsche M96) where the empirical evidence is that changing the oil between twice as often and three times as often as the manufacturer's recommendation is the right way to prevent specific damage. This was using the manufacturer's recommended and supposed best oil, full synthetic and 0w40.

Assuming the engineers got it right can be wrong.

I've seen where the initial release of the owner's manual says one number and maybe two years later and no change in manufacturing process the owners manual recommendation changes to a significantly lower number.

Maintenance intervals can be influenced by marketing and the need to show low maintenance costs for car magazine tests. Wear won't show until long after those tests are filed away.

Brand of oil recommendations by a manufacturer are also influenced by marketing.

Even viscosity can be influenced by the need to show MPG with wear a secondary consideration.

I use full synthetic and change at 1k, and at the 5k intervals after that. I drive a very mixed use pattern, part urban, part suburban, part interstate. From 5F to 104F.