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Broken torque limiter?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by mitch56, Jan 25, 2010.

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  1. mitch56

    mitch56 New Member

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    Hello everyone,
    I'm a longtime Toyota owner and fan but new to this forum. Thanks in advance to all that think about and or respond to my problem/question!
    So here goes : The wife calls and says the 05 Prius(69k miles,well maintained) is making a bad noise from the front(engine area) that comes and goes. I started the Prius up after a car swap at her work and almost shut it down after hearing the grinding sound when the gas motor started(ugly). The noise stopped after about 3 seconds and I decided to drive it home and inspect . The sound was so bad initially that I suspected the lower end was failing. However after turning the crankshaft via ratchet/socket I could tell the noise was coming from the area between the engine and transaxle so I removed the inspection covers and looked in w/mirror and flashlight(tough angle). I could see that the flywheel had a shiney edge(top outer) on it and there were metal shavings everwhere. I used my compressor to blow compressed air into that area and got two small curved cylindrical metal pieces and some plastic to fly out(along with an unbelievable amount metal shavings).
    After researching the web and seeing an exploded view of that area I concluded that the "torque limiter" (new term to me but the only one I can find) was coming apart.
    Ok,that's the story and here's the question! Does anyone reading this have any knowldege(first hand or other)about this type of failure? Do I just need to replace this part(remove trans) or is it just a symptom of some other(larger?) problem?
     
    #1 mitch56, Jan 25, 2010
  2. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Maybe you are referring to the transmission input damper assembly? This is between the engine and transaxle and is mounted to the engine flywheel.

    I have not heard about this part failing in the past. I agree that you would remove the transaxle to gain access to the part.

    Please take photos of the damaged parts as this is a great opportunity for you to contribute to the collective knowledge base. Thanks!
     
    #2 Patrick Wong, Jan 25, 2010
  3. mitch56

    mitch56 New Member

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    Yes, we are referring to the same part. The transaxle is coming out tomorrow and If I don't see anything bad(or hear something from this forum)I will just replace the "transmission input damper assembly",engine rear main seal and some pretty fluids.
     
    #3 mitch56, Jan 25, 2010
  4. V8Cobrakid

    V8Cobrakid Green Handyman

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    that's horrible news (metal shavings and such)

    a lot of people have complained about rough starting noises.. almost grinding.. or even pinging. (mine sounds odd) i've peaked into these spots and didn't see anything odd before.. you make me want to check again. please post photos
     
    #4 V8Cobrakid, Jan 25, 2010
  5. mitch56

    mitch56 New Member

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    I will post pictures of the failed part(s) and share any interesting info gained during this wonderful adventure !!
     
    #5 mitch56, Jan 25, 2010
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  6. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    That part is basically a coupler with some spring to it. It allows for a bit of surge in the ICE to not be directly coupled to the transaxle, or the other way around.

    Tom
     
    #6 qbee42, Jan 25, 2010
  7. hobbit

    hobbit Senior Member

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    Wow, yeah, that's the first any of us have heard of *that* part
    failing, or anything even near it. It's effectively a flywheel,
    and couples to the HSD via some impulse-absorbing springs and
    a fixed-pressure clutch plate which ideally should never actually
    slip under normal conditions. You've got a new one on the
    community here, and the better you can document it and find the
    actual cause the more knowledgebase value it'll have!
    .
    Was any part of the engine or transmission case/housing
    damaged prior to this happening?
    .
    _H*
     
    #7 hobbit, Jan 26, 2010
  8. mitch56

    mitch56 New Member

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    No prior damage to powertrain. Just 69k of wear and tear.
    The only thing odd I noticed when I drove it to get gas last week(about the only time I drive it) is when the gas motor shut off at idle the car seemed to shudder rather harshly. Very brief but noticable.
     
    #8 mitch56, Jan 26, 2010
  9. kohnen

    kohnen Grumpy, Cranky Senior Member

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    Wow!

    As near as I can tell, you're the only one on the PLANET who has ever blown a Prius clutch! :rockon:
     
    #9 kohnen, Jan 26, 2010
  10. mitch56

    mitch56 New Member

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    In all fairness we must give that credit to my lovley wife!:cheer2:

    Do you think she can get her own "Reality Show" ?:humble:
     
    #10 mitch56, Jan 26, 2010
  11. mitch56

    mitch56 New Member

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    Re: Broken torque limiter?Pictures now attached !!

    Ok everyone here are the ugly pictures ! As you can see one spring broke out completely and parts of that spring lodged in one of the others. The inside surface of the transaxle case was quite scored and grooved but not in any critical areas so it should be good to go.

    It all went back together and drives well again. My wife loves this car and we are loyal Toyota owners. I hope nothing else weird happens to this car.


    PRIUS1.jpg

    PRIUS2.jpg
     
    #11 mitch56, Jan 27, 2010
    3 people like this.
  12. paprius4030

    paprius4030 My first Prius

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    Thanks for the info and the pics. How long did it take you to do the repair?
     
    #12 paprius4030, Jan 27, 2010
  13. mitch56

    mitch56 New Member

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    One very long day !!
     
    #13 mitch56, Jan 27, 2010
  14. hobbit

    hobbit Senior Member

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    Any chance you can post *bigger* pictures?
    .
    _H*
     
    #14 hobbit, Feb 2, 2010
  15. Meckkush

    Meckkush New Member

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    I may be diagnosing a bad trans damper to. Have a 09 prius. 130k miles. Suspected bad battery. After battery repair. The prius engine wouldnt start. Note i replaced a 3gen head gasket. After putting a wrench on the crack pulley bolt. The engine wouldnt turn. It felt like the timing chain binded up. Engine had less then a quart of oil. Suspected locked engine. After seperating the engine from the trans the engine spun free and smooth. Still had a back up engine without a flywheel. We used the flywheel and damper from the suspected failed engine. And once the new engine was installed the new engine once mated to the trans wouldnt spin free. When i did the head job the engine spun free regardless if the trans is in park. The torque damper dosnt look damanged and plenty of meat. And no obvious shavings. So im sure i have a locked up damper.... any one think this is my issue.
     
    #15 Meckkush, Jul 3, 2017
  16. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    guess not.
     
    #16 bisco, Jul 3, 2017
    m.wynn likes this.
  17. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    1. Prior to replacing the traction battery, did the 2009 Prius engine work OK - or is this a car that you bought via used-vehicle auction with who knows how many issues exist?
    2. I agree that the engine should be able to be rotated by hand when the car is IG-OFF and the gear selector therefore is in P.
    3. The torque damper is a simple device, it just has four springs to absorb shock produced by the engine power strokes. So I am not sure how it would lock up, unless it was off-center somehow and binding against the transaxle case.
    4. Since you are going to have to disassemble the transaxle from the engine again, perhaps you might see whether you can spin the transaxle input shaft with the engine removed?
     
    #17 Patrick Wong, Jul 3, 2017
  18. Meckkush

    Meckkush New Member

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    I did put the clutch part on the input shaft and it did not spin free. After doing homework im assuming mg1 should spin free to the ring gear with the parking pin locks. Also the engine died on the owner driving. He said he drove it 20miles home on batt power which is jaw dropping to say the least. So the engine has never run since ive had it at the shop
     
    #18 Meckkush, Jul 3, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2017
  19. Meckkush

    Meckkush New Member

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    This is a customers car. Also heres the story. Guy takes this car to toyota. They diagnose bad hv batt. He brings it to us on roll back. The car would drive on eletric only. The engine would not start at all. Then i start suspecting a mechanical failure with the drive line. The engine was leaking oil all under the exhaust manifold and on the back side of the head where the trans and engine mate. Alot of oil on top of the trans. The engine also had less then a quart. And the owner said the engine sounded bad. Before never starting again. Then the crank not rotating and feeling binded up. To behonest i thought it was a broken timing chain with the way it felt locked up. Im fearing a bad trans and a failing engine. But idk i dont want to throw more money for no progress
     
    #19 Meckkush, Jul 3, 2017
  20. Merkey

    Merkey Active Member

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    I suspect the same torque damper problem with my '06 w/233k miles. It shudders and shakes when the ice cuts in and out. Although not officially diagnosed, the dealer said it would be a $2000 repair for parts and labor. Not sure it's worth it, epecially since the original HV batt could go at any time.
     
    #20 Merkey, Jul 4, 2017
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