BT Stiffening Plate Review

Just thought I'd chime in with the believers out there! My wife and I installed the BT plate tonight with the sun checking out for the day, and a flashlight in each of our hands. We got the plate with the bolts and the torque wrench and we sweated our butts off getting the thing installed. All told it took about a half an hour, and would've taken about half as much if my ramps were a little higher, jacking the car up an inch or two more (it was a real bitch reading the torque wrench on the driver's side).

Anyways, what I can I say, the hype wagon is pretty much a hundred percent true on this one! The car corners MUCH MUCH better, the ride is smoother over bumps, and the car just feels more solid and safe! My wife drove it first and I noticed the change in handling slightly from the passenger seat, but then we switched and man, the difference is definitely noticeable, especially at speeds of 50 or more. It's amazing that such a small, light, peice of metal can make such a difference.

Well done Brian! Your product shocked the heck out of us! And thanks for the great customer service! I'm definitely one of the more skeptical folks that I know, and I couldn't be happier to see that all the talk wasn't lip service.

 

Boyhowdy, this is another one of those threads that will not die..
.
My plate had the clearance issue, which I simply took to be a design
feature to spread the body contact points out as far as possible.
With the plate bridging four distinct points instead of being flush
with the body rails, the plate has much more leverage to provide
the stiffening effect. If it fits exactly and the cutout *doesn't*
contact the frame, you don't know *where* it's applying countertorque
but it's a safe bet that it's at points that are much closer together
and thus not nearly as effective.
.
Maybe this is what's causing all the varied reports??
.
_H*

 

I have over 5k miles on my plate. It's actually more than that.. but i'm not sure of the intall mileage.. hehe.

Second opinion?

awesome product still. It really helps. I'm still going to change the suspension though.

the suspension simply can't do it's job. it was designed badly. The bt plate lessons the whole "side to side" feel from the large back end on the car.

the suspension still bounces though. *shrug*

 

Brian or other BT plate experts, do you have any feedback on the earlier post below? Thanks!



I'm considering getting the BT stiffening plate. With so many great reviews, it seems clear the plate will enhance performance. I'm curious about engineering though. Perhaps I missed it in prior postings, but is there a technical explanation of why the plate works? What is the genesis of the BT plate? For example, was Toyota or an engineering group tasked with making the Prius handle better? Was the BT plate the ideal fix, or just an opportunistic one (ie: chosen because it's easy to do)? Is there a better, but more difficult fix?

My concern is that the plate looks super strong, but the bolts holding it look rather weak. In the same way a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link, is the ability of the plate to stiffen the chassis limited by the strength of the bolts attaching it to the car body? I've heard at least one person say they stripped a bolt while installing the plate. It seems the ideal design to keep the car body stiff would use much stronger bolts that couldn't be stripped with human strength, for example like bolts used on suspension components or tire retaining bolts.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(nyprius @ Aug 1 2006, 06:01 AM) [snapback]295634[/snapback]</div>

Your right.. there is a ton of info in earlier threads on "why" this works... but searching is often frustrating.

If you look underneath, or review the pictures, you will see a U shaped hole running down the middle of the car.
The factory plate keeps both sides of the car from pulling apart and even flexing inward simply due to its connection even as flimsy as it is.
But being flimsy, it does little for flexation up and down. Say your right wheel hits a pot hole or you are cornering to the left so the weight is thrown to the right, the right side can twist and flex upward while the left does not causing funkyness not only in tire wear and traction, but the basic "feel" of the cars responsiveness to the wheel and tightness to your commands from the steering.

The frong of the car seems fine, although those who installed Toms stuff say it can be improved too, but the back can very easy be improved with Brians plate.

Like I said in earlier threads, these subtile differences at slow speeds become more and more apparent with higher G forces and flexation forces against the frame as it bounces or corners down the road.

Its really not fair to judge the plate if you don't test the suspension.... like I said, if you keep it under 35, even a model T don't feel too bad suspension wise. Try putting a more powerful engine in it and go 80 down a mountain pass or pass an 18 wheeler in a two lane going 70+ each way and see how your model T makes you feel! :lol:

I know thats not an accurate comparison by an means, but my point is if your going to test something, you must test it at extremes, not driving like grandma.

Grandma doesn't need this plate, she won't be able to tell the difference.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Jul 28 2006, 12:45 PM) [snapback]293858[/snapback]</div>

I'm sorry, but I don't understand how this can be possible. Susceptibility to crosswinds would seem to mainly have to do with vehicle shape, tire width and stickiness, and car weight. How would the stiffening plate change this? If it worked at all, it would effect to what degree the car twists on its front to back axis. How would a modestly stiffer plate prevent the car from changing lanes due to crosswinds?

 

I installed BT stiffening plate in my work parking lot. The drive home was definitely improved. The seams in an overpass that used to cause the rear of my Prius to 'waggle' have become just another dip in the road. The washboards in the dirt road have changed from life changing events to just annoying bumps in the road. The best money I ever spent!!

PS My MFD tells me 58.3 MPG over 322 miles in mixed mountain driving, total miles 6632. ) !!! I started driving Prius 2 weeks ago when we took delivery of another '06 Prius.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ScottR @ Aug 1 2006, 07:55 PM) [snapback]296048[/snapback]</div>

funny how its hard to accept what we don't understand... I have the same problem... but I'm learning the older I get there is more and more I don't understand that I thought I did. :lol:

Anyway.. the only way I can explain it is if you get hit by a gust of wind from the side or a negative vacuum as an 18 wheeler passes in the opposing lane, you in essence get the benifit of the weight of the other half of your car to help hold you down and steady.

The Prius is very light for the physical size it is... so negative vacuums and wind gusts may have a noticable impact since they both play off of automobile surface area compared to weight.

The only thing that save its bacon from the front is the supreme aerodynamics of facing wind headon.

A better way to understand it is to exaggerate the illustration.

A kite flys because its surface area is so big compared to the weight, or when placing a sail on a boat, you've just increased the surface area of the boat "so to speak" in interact with the wind.

By adding the plate you get the full benifit of all your weight, rather than having the other half cop out because of flexation.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ScottR @ Aug 1 2006, 07:55 PM) [snapback]296048[/snapback]</div>

Scott, don't even try to understand. You see, the BT stiffner is a "faith based" solution to an imaginary problem. (My opinion only, and others are entitled to theirs.)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(pogo @ Aug 2 2006, 08:23 AM) [snapback]296292[/snapback]</div>

Opinions are only opinions unless you have tried it yourself.

I didn't think there was an issue either till I put on the plate and felt the improvement.

Too bad, there are alot of good things in life people miss out one because they won't try it unless they totally "understand it"..... have you been in a jet lately?... I bet not...... that takes a bit of faith in a pilot that knows how to fly it to do that.

Surely, there are things you do in life based on faith...... do you understand love?..... I can answer that... no
So are you afraid to love?
So many others have tried it and say its wonderful and others say it hurts...so do you err on the side of playing it safe and don't try it?

You are entitled to your opinion.... we were all given free will to screw up any way we like, and revel in it as deep as we want, then we pay the consequences.

So tell us your experience when you tried the BT Plate?

If you say you don't need it because there is not problem.... how do you know?

Do you know more having not tried it, than others who have?

If you have tried it, I beg to hear your testimony of how its a waste..... your opinion is credible to state if you have bought one.

If you haven't, then why would you even pipe in to state your opinion?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Aug 2 2006, 10:57 AM) [snapback]296416[/snapback]</div>

That first line is interesting. Even when you try it yourself, it's still an opinion. It may have more weight than a person who hasn't, but it's still only an opinion.

This is one argument on why it isn't on my "gotta have now" list. This implies that I have to get the BT plate in order to enjoy the Prius. You can also say, "How do you know you aren't enjoying life if you don't use <insert name of beer, cigarette, drug or religion>?"

I put it back to you.....how do you know it's a problem for me? I don't know you. I've never met you. I've never driven the route you take, nor do I drive the speeds you do. You said earlier if you drive like a grandma you don't need it. Then are you forcing me to drive a different way? Are you implying that I don't know how to drive a car? Have you driven my commute? Are you my age, weight and size? Is your driving history (ie length of time with a license, cars owned) exactly like mine?

I'm trying to keep an open mind about this. I drive on freeway, residential and hills. I've tried to go quickly around a corner to see what the rear end would do. I don't notice any loss of control. Same thing on the freeway. I do NOT think that the effect of the BT brace is due to placebo. When people here have asked what mods they should get, I mention that several have gotten the BT brace and have been very happy with it (even though I don't have one yet). I'm not saying I'll never get one, and if I do, and if it's great, I'll be sure to eat crow and let everyone know. I'm sure it will do good. I'd be surprised if it didn't. But if I don't really find a difference, and I want to sell it, what will you say? "Sorry it didn't work?" "You need to drive differently" "You aren't sensitive enough?" I mean, are you willing to accept that I don't have a problem to begin with or that there's a problem with me because I didn't experiece the change like you did? One thing's for sure, if it didn't work, I would tell others that while it didn't work for me, it may work for them. I won't say it's a dumb thing to buy.

Part of this is subjective. If it works for you and not for me, neither of us is wrong in our feelings. If it works for you, me and not for someone else, none of us is wrong again. Just don't assume since everyone here has a Prius, we are the same. Heck, we don't even get the same mileage. Your experience may vary is all I'm saying.

This is why I chose to "pipe in" with my opinion. Just because someone says "no" doesn't make them 100% right or 100% wrong. I take that back, they're wrong if they say, "I don't believe it'll work so nobody should get one," and they're right if they say, "I don't plan to get one," for any reason they chose.

Windstrings, I know you got your Prius with a car broker and had a good experience. I got my last car with a car broker and got screwed. Who's right and who's wrong? The answer is NEITHER.

I know how you feel. I know someone who said they hated the movie Grease and they walked out during the opening credits. So since they never really saw the movie, I don't respect their opinion. A person I knew that liked the movie felt sad that she liked such a bad movie. She wasn't wrong in her opinion. The guy was wrong in saying it's bad when he didn't see it. But I'm not going to say that if you don't want to see Grease there's a problem with you.

Sorry about the rant. I was taught in Public Speaking to avoid "sweeping generalities."

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Aug 2 2006, 11:11 AM) [snapback]296277[/snapback]</div>

Not true and makes no sense. The Prius is not a very light car, either in absolute terms or as measured by a volume/weight ratio. The Prius brochure lists it as about 2900 pounds in base form. That is not a light car; the Corolla, by comparison, weighs about 300 pounds less than the Prius, is several inches longer and about the same width.

You make it sound like the weight is, otherwise, out there somewhere, separate from the car. It isn't. The car itself might flex more, but that's hardly the same as the entire car shifting to another lane.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Aug 2 2006, 01:57 PM) [snapback]296416[/snapback]</div>

That's simply illogical; faith and understanding are two different things. I know planes fly--I need merely look up. Still, even though I do understand why, my understanding is irrelevant to the reality. That the pilot is competent is simply hope; I could be wrong and the plane will crash.

But whether I am going to spend $160+ dollars on something that does not have a plausible explanation is another thing. It's not a matter of "understanding" how it works; it's a matter of having some confidence that it will work at all. This is why I don't buy magnetic bracelets that claim to relieve aches and pains or drink garlic juice to fight off colds. There are things that should have explanations, things that have a root in the scientific world. Tires with shorter sidewalls will improve handling because the sidewalls don't flex as much. Morphine stops pain by its interaction with stereospecific and saturable binding sites in the brain. And replacing one plate with a slightly different one? Tell me why it ought to work despite the questionable physics. I'm not insisting it does not work; I'm asking why it should.

Go back and read what I've written, both in this post and previously. I don't want to buy something just because of a psychological effect. I'm a cynic, and the effect won't work on me. By way of example, I would point out this review.

He states (with appropriate snippage):
And the verdict? Well, I performed a totally unscientific blind test on my wife ... And I can confirm exactly one thing: That the placebo effect is alive and well. I told her (and showed her some of the glowing PriusChat reviews) about this chassis stiffener. After I had been out in the driveway for 15 minutes fooling with the ramps and the car, I told her the brace was installed. She drove the car. Presto. The car felt "more refined" she reported when she returned from her short drive. The secret surprise? For this part of the test, I had only removed the factory brace, and installed NOTHING. At this point the car was ala carte. Onto stage 2 of the test... I next installed the BT plate and I told her I'd gone back to the "old" brace to see if she could feel the difference. I was informed that indeed, the ride was not as good. "More wiggly."

I think there are people who want it to work, but that's not enough for me. If someone can give me an explanation as to why it ought to work, I'd be more inclined to buy it. Even better (though far less likely) would be blind tests: two Prii, one with the plate, one without, test driven by someone who does not know which is which, under all the conditions it claims to improve (handling, cross-winds, etc.). I've love to see something like that; since I doubt I will, a good explanation as to why the plate will improve things would be most welcome.

 

the Prius is lighter in the fact that it has a high narrow profile as compared to the Corolla. that makes it vunerable to side sheer.

have already said it a bunch of times, but will say it again. the plate improved my handling of my Prius and i rarely drive fast or erratically. almost never in a situation of two lane road at greater than 50 mph.

will say that we have several bridges crisscrossing Puget Sound where side shear is a HUGE problem. you dont know what its like until you hit the freeway with speed limits at 60 mph and the flashing billboard says safe max speed is 35 mph. and THEY MEAN IT !!

obviously its impossible to compare handling because of the infinite variety of conditions and lack of side by side comparisons, but will say, its much more relaxing crossing a few of those floating bridges than it used to be. and the side shear was just as bad an issue with my Corolla, my F-150 and and any other vehicle i had tried to cross with so not a Prius specific issue.

what it boils down to is many here simply dont see conditions that warrant the extra side stability. its your decision. to be honest with ya, never thought the price was high enough to warrant much thought of how much it would help. but then again, i am very cheap in other ways...just the way i am.

 

ScottR/aaf709: Thanks for the greatly sensible, level-headed, and realistic summary of this whole issue vs some of what seems to be faith-based, subjective views.

We're all here to just to improve the car any way possible, but some insist on dragging it into the arena of fervent dissertation foaming with personal reputation attacks. At least some of it is predictable and avoidable.

All in all, I'm a numbers guy, this is a numbers car, and this is a numbers website, so more of that would be more appreciated.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aaf709 @ Aug 2 2006, 11:48 AM) [snapback]296459[/snapback]</div>

But in your earlier post you pretty much said it won't work for anybody. And you used a sweeping generalization as well...

That sounds to me like a pretty wide sweeping generality, and from soneone who has no direct experience on the subject. Your only role here seems to be to tell everyone ELSE how stupid and misguided they are. I respect the people who write about their EXPERIENCE with the plate -- good or bad. But I have no respect for UNINFORMED opinion which takes on the appearance of product-bashing.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DaveinOlyWA @ Aug 2 2006, 04:16 PM) [snapback]296506[/snapback]</div>

Prius height: 58.10"
Corolla height: 58.50"

Prius width: 67.90"
Corolla width: 66.90"

Prius weight: 2890
Corolla weight: 2530 (CE trim)

(source: MSN Autos)

So, the Corolla is a bit taller, a bit narrower, and weighs quite a bit less (and, again, due to the batteries the Prius's center of gravity is lower, which generally improves handling) . In every sense, the Prius is a heavier car (and "lightness" is stricly a function of weight, anyway).

The Corolla has a 5.70" ground clearance compared to the Prius's 4.90", yielding about 0.4" less of a profile--negligible (literally, less than the width of an average pinkie finger), and the Prius's lower clearance would provide better handling and less susceptibility to sideways movement due to windshear (compare a typical SUV's higher ground clearance/center of gravity by example).

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jbarnhart @ Aug 2 2006, 01:34 PM) [snapback]296519[/snapback]</div>

I'm sorry you got that idea. What I'm trying to say the results won't be the same for everybody. It will work for some, it may not work (or as well) for others. I just don't want an assumption that if you don't want it, there's something wrong with you. I also don't want the assumption that you shouldn't get it because it's all placebo.

The part you quoted was:

Just because someone says "no" doesn't make them 100% right or 100% wrong. I take that back, they're wrong if they say, "I don't believe it'll work so nobody should get one," and they're right if they say, "I don't plan to get one," for any reason they chose.

What I meant there was I can't tell you not to get one just because I don't think it'll do me any good. I would be wrong to do so. I can say, "I won't get one until I have other mods done (or whatever)," or "I don't really think I have that much of a problem with control." You would be right in telling people your experience, but would you also be right in saying I have a problem and don't know about it?

We agree there. But don't dismiss someone who doesn't feel they have a problem.

We are different and will have a different experience. That's it. Nobody's wrong for wanting it and nobody's wrong for not deciding to get one.

 

well must be the newer models. my old corolla (91) is definitely lower. in fact, im at my nephews house right now with both vehicles parked side by side and the profiles are markedly different. the Prius looks taller, narrower and longer. the corolla is shorter in height by at least 2 inches im guessing and "seems" shorter in length because the side profile gives a more squat look than the Prius. now, i have no idea how the current tires compare to the stock other than the width is probably the same. they are 13 " though which im pretty sure was standard when i bought the car.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(pogo @ Aug 2 2006, 08:23 AM) [snapback]296292[/snapback]</div>

Please take a look at the original thread discussing the stiffening plate:

New Prius Handling Components to be available soon!!