Building oil pressure after a service ?

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Main Forum' started by Juntuner, Jun 25, 2019.

  1. Juntuner

    Juntuner Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2017
    20
    6
    1
    Location:
    England
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Hello
    After I service my cars I like to crank the car without starting it
    I do this
    1.To prime the oil pump with oil as after draining the old oil the oil pump is empty of oil
    2.i like to prime to engine with oil as it prevents damage to the big end bearings and to prevent metal on metal damage within the engine
    3.in the past when I have just started the car after an oil change I hear a metal on metal whirring noise and no doubt if I continued to do this every time I service the car it will damage the engine overtime

    In my Subaru I would simply disconnect the crank angle sensor and then crank the starter motor for 5 seconds to prime the oil pump with oil and to circulate oil around the engine internals

    When I service my prius gen 3
    I disconnect each coil pack from its connector and let the car prime for 5 to 10 seconds by hitting the start button

    I would like to find a better method of getting the engine to prime with oil before starting it after an oil change.
    I have removed fuses but the check hybrid system error comes up and the car will not crank as its it goes into a safe mode

    Has anyone tried disconnecting the Crank Angle Sensor or any other sensors after doing an oil service so as to allow the engine to prime with oil before starting the car ?

    Or is there a fuse or relay I can remove that will NOT prevent the car from starting(Going into a safety or limp mode) while at the same time allowing the engine to build oil pressure?
    I was thinking of disconnecting the fuel Injectors relay ? or maybe the Ignition fuse ? or Crank Angle sensor
    anyone tried this ?
     
  2. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2008
    15,241
    10,603
    0
    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    The car pretty much does what you want it to do, every time it starts.

    MG1 is a powerful motor used for cranking the engine. Unlike a typical underpowered starter motor, MG1 can comfortably crank the engine at near normal idle speed, bringing the oil pressure quickly to nominal levels, before the ECM begins injecting fuel and triggering spark.
     
  3. FuelMiser

    FuelMiser Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2008
    1,004
    707
    0
    Location:
    Monument, CO
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Whatever floats your boat...
     
  4. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2016
    4,496
    4,758
    0
    Location:
    Columbia, SC
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    What makes you think the oil pump and all the ports completely drain when you change the oil?
    Drain the old oil out, remove old filter, fill new filter with fresh oil and install. Add oil to engine and fire it up. There's plenty of oil film remaining on the engine components to protect them for the time it takes to start oil flow again.

    Easy squeezy. No damage done....
     
  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    95,353
    43,226
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    have you tried maintenance mode?
     
  6. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2018
    4,461
    4,406
    1
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius c
    Model:
    Two
    ^ What @TMR-JWAP said. When I change oil, I always manage to get the new oil in during the same month as when I drained the old. And I'm not using antique oil that my grandpa left to me.

    Modern motor oil can leave a protective film for a very long time.

    Now, I've shared your concern with other, older engines. I've got some garden equipment that only runs a few hours a year. I do think it's worth priming those.

    But a modern, daily-driven car with modern oil? Nothing to worry about.
     
    James Powers and Montgomery like this.
  7. tvpierce

    tvpierce Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2015
    941
    861
    2
    Location:
    Maine
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Five
    With a horizontally mounted cartridge filter? o_O
     
    Mendel Leisk likes this.
  8. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sand Pounder

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    46,034
    32,875
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Attached is the Repair Manual Instruction for oil change.

    No mention of a need to prime then engine with oil.

    Big mention of the little metal clip, which in fact does nothing. Mention too, of a the flat spot on the housing threads, tilting the housing to drain when removing, also pretty much pointless.

    The main takeaways I think: be sure to get the new O-ring in the right location, and oil it well. And use a torque wrench.
     
  9. tvpierce

    tvpierce Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2015
    941
    861
    2
    Location:
    Maine
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Five
    There's nothing wrong with what you're doing -- but you're not preventing any damage.

    What you're hearing on that first start is not metal-to-metal contact.
     
  10. Grit

    Grit Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2017
    5,302
    3,740
    1
    Location:
    Wilkes Land
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    Four
    I get metal clanks also after a fresh crankcase drain and refill. RMB got the clanks also when I helped him changed oil at a meetup, we use different brand oil and filter by the way.
     
    #10 Grit, Jun 25, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2019
    Raytheeagle likes this.
  11. Grit

    Grit Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2017
    5,302
    3,740
    1
    Location:
    Wilkes Land
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    Four
    It is metal to metal. I heard it twice on 2 different Prius, it’s an alarming scraping sound.
     
  12. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2018
    3,819
    2,270
    0
    Location:
    Florida
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    The metal clip on the oil filter housing is keep the housing from backing out from vibration.
    If it's tightened correctly, it won't, but it's a safety thing.
    I remove it before putting the socket to remove the housing on, it makes it easier.
    If I had a lift, I probably wouldn't need to remove it.
    I only snug it up after the housing bottoms out, then install the clip.
    I've done 6 or 7 oil changes and it hasn't come loose. And only the first oil change I did was it
    hard to remove the housing because someone else used there 3 foot breaker bar to tighten it to 4000 ft.#'s!
     
  13. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sand Pounder

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    46,034
    32,875
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    I never even notice the clip anymore. It's there, but doesn't get in my way or anything. I'm using a conventional-looking Honda socket, fwiw.
     
  14. tvpierce

    tvpierce Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2015
    941
    861
    2
    Location:
    Maine
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Five
    OK (y)
     
    Grit likes this.
  15. AzWxGuy

    AzWxGuy Weather Guy

    Joined:
    May 22, 2011
    842
    412
    0
    Location:
    Tucson, AZ
    Vehicle:
    2021 Prius
    Model:
    Limited
    Wondering if a Scan Gauge can readout oil pressure, or is the sensor just an on-off pressure switch for the idiot light?
     
  16. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2018
    4,461
    4,406
    1
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius c
    Model:
    Two
    The car is only equipped with an on-off switch for the emergency low pressure warning.

    Most cars don't have pressure gauges because they don't need them. It might be a shock, but it turns out that millions of dollars of engineering over a few decades actually worked, and we have hundreds of millions of cars still starting and running every day. All without priming, all without gauges.

    @Juntuner you could use Techstream to set the car up for a compression test. That way the computer will understand that you just want to spin the crank without starting up, and it'll help you do this without causing unnecessary errors or complications.

    The downside is that hooking up a laptop with Techstream is already a bit complicated for an oil change. I can't think of a simpler way.
     
  17. Juntuner

    Juntuner Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2017
    20
    6
    1
    Location:
    England
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    I agree
    I do a New OEM TOYOTA Oil and Oil filter Change on my Prius engine between every 7000 to 10,000 miles .
    So with my current milage @ 400,000 Miles divided by 10,000= a Total 40 Oil changes on 2 different engines thus far.

    In these 40 separate oil changes I noticed this metal on metal noise on every occasion (Apart from the times I Primed the engine with oil using the aforementioned method or another method where I shut the engine off before it turns on)

    I believe the Metal on metal noise is caused by oil draining out of the Oil pump and oil Pump Pickup in the sump and also the fact that the cartridge oil filter has no oil in it at all after fitting a new oil Filter.

    I Theorise that after an oil change when you start the engine ,for a few seconds the Oil pump is sucking in air and more significantly that the oil filter cartridge housing also needs to refill with oil as its completely empty of oil and until the oil pump ,pumps the new oil around the motor and fills these 2 places where there is no oil .A metal on metal noise will be heard after which point the engine primes and can build up oil pressure at which point the noise goes away.

    I have always done this on my new Engine and after 100,000 miles and my service internal of 7000 to 10,000 miles the car does not consume any oil
     
    #17 Juntuner, Jun 25, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2019
  18. Juntuner

    Juntuner Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2017
    20
    6
    1
    Location:
    England
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Excellent thank you thats great advice .
    I have tried getting techstream to work on 3 separate computers using 3 different OBD cables to no Avail .Dont know what I am doing wrong

    and thanks Mendel for the document
     
    #18 Juntuner, Jun 25, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2019
  19. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2008
    15,241
    10,603
    0
    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    TMR's profile says a Gen 2, so a 1NZ engine with the nice vertically mounted filter. I admit I used to fill that one myself before installing.

    Try to fill a Gen 3 2ZR engine's cartridge filter before installing, and you just end up oiling your armpit.
     
  20. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sand Pounder

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    46,034
    32,875
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    He says the car in question is a gen 3.

    I just put in a fresh oil filter, 4.2 litres in crankcase, works.
     
Loading...