Bush Pushing Hydrogen Fuel As Alternative

By the way, liquid water build-up at intersections will cause horrible problems too. Just look at how there are significantly more potholes under bridges, since they stay wet much longer then the exposed roadway on either side of the bridge.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(john1701a\";p=\"93394)</div>

get your head around it John your going to need studded tires all winter long |with| chains. Have you considered warmer climbs? Do it now before the "Ice Storm" arrives and the masses realize it's only going to get worse and they all try and leave at the same time. You've been a Pioneer now's the time to carry on the tradition.

 

That's so encouraging.

 

Photo of a hydrogen powered Prus test.

Hydrogen as a fuel still has some bugs to work out.

http://www.priuschat.com/forums/album_pic....php?pic_id=1323

Oh the humanity!

 

My last post on this subject to those who DON'T GET IT (rcroft and devils advocate).

1. Devils Advocate. H will never be cheaper than fossil fuel because of (as Herb correctly pointed out) a nasty little detail called physics. It takes more energy to produce H than you can get out of it. Period. This will never change. Its not a computer.

2. rcroft. You are right to be concerned about running out of oil, but you are still missing my point. H will not be useful to the human race until we can cost effectively and efficiently create it in massive quantities from alternaitve energy sources. But we can't because of the 30% energy penalty due to physics and the fact that solar, and wind and etc. are all more expensive than fossil fuel. Therefore, because of the free market, it won't help. If the cost of oil goes up, so will the cost of H unless we are creating it from solar or wind, etc.

MY POINT IS, we need to plan for the future and invest in the future by developing more cost effective and efficient alternative energy sources.

READ THIS PARAGRAPH PLEASE
Wave your magic wand and put an H fueling station on every corner. Who's going to use it? NOBODY. The cars to put it in will be way more expensive and the H fuel itself will be way more expensive. Becuase of the free market we will all continue to use oil. When the oil starts to run out, H won't help unless it is cheaper to produce (from solar and wind etc.) than the cost of oil. And this is where I think you and I are disconnecting. I believe that you think we can already produce H from solar and wind and therefore we need get the H infrastructure in place. You are correct that we can produce H, but here is the part that you are missing. It will be VERY expensive. If we have to pay the price for H from solar panels and wind ships its going to cost the equivalent of about $10 a gallon, which will completely cripple the world economy. We will be driven into a worldwide depression. So what we vitally need is not H, but cost effective alternative energy sources first. That is my point, and if you think about, it is an irrefutable point. Developing an H economy and alternative energy sources in parallel is fine, but it is really alternative enegy that we need. Te bottomline problem is running out of oil, and H will not save us from that. The only thing that will save us is developing COST EFFECTIVE alternative energy supplies, and we currently don't have them.

 

No No,
I understand the difficulties; I just don't yet accept them as absolutes.

The problem I have with most current "alternative" sources of fuel/power is that you cannot store and transport the energy, i.e. a gallon of gas.

Bio-diesel just cannot be produced on a scale that approaches the worlds need for power in a way that won't leave the earth barren of nutrients. No actual empirical evidence, just extrapolation.

H may not be the future (I still think it is) someone may come up with an element or other new fuel in the future, however H (if the production problem is overcome) could easily be integrated into the fuel stream.

There are companies that for $3,000 can switch almost any fuel injected car to run directly on H. (and no H powered fuel cells are not the only way to derive the power, H burns quite nicely in an engine)