Bush ready to gut Endangered Species Act.

Very well stated.

 

Unfortunately, Manipulators come at both ends of the political spectrum. Some projects were canceled/delayed because of trumped up environmental concerns (Snail Darter anyone?) Many businesses deserve to be stopped in their tracks, not because what they do is bad, but they do it as destructively as possible (WV coal mining).

Sadly, Environmental Organizations and Commercial businesses that work together get the job done seemlessly....and with no media coverage. The smarter businesses have learned that coordinating with the environment is ultimately more profitable than fighting.....but not near as fun as combating the other side in public. Very fortunately, a lot of the cooperative efforts are happening....silently.

 

This is very evident throughout the history of our society when and where those regulations are upheld with teeth and education.

This whole deal makes me sick and as such I have avoided replying thus far. I'm tired of ignorant people running the country and our lives.....

 

I'm much more optimistic. Lousy executive branch decisions and initiatives have always been a constant and will continue to be. What has happened is that states and communities are bypassing the federal government and setting their own environmental agendas. California is clearly better than the US executive branch for initiating good (and a few bad) efforts to fight pollution. The better air that I breath is probably more due to CA gov. than the US gov. Same story with solar power. I really belive that the net outcome of trying to gut the ESA will be not what everyone expects at first thought. (i.e. Rather than gutting the ESA, what will happen is the federal government will cede more power to the states and communities unexpectedly.)

 

it wasn't completely tongue-in-cheek. Unregulated capitalism is as bad as communism (which has a horrid environmental record). My point is there must be regulation. Yes, there has to be balance. I'm big on that, that's why I'm a centrist and dislike both parties (though I do dislike the republicans more these days). The private sector must be regulated, however, because its participants act soley in their best interest and often in their short-term best interest. DogFriend pointed out two good examples of why that's true. I also don't like unions (for similar reasons really) so I'm not just picking on "bidness". Labour is just a guilty. They're all human institutions afterall... so you know they'll suck.

Depends on how carbon intensive your diet is...

 

Grrrr....I had just typed out a long treatise on why both parties suck, but the browser went crazy and lost it all.

Regulation is needed because people are basically greedy. But too much regulation becomes bureaucracy and grinds everything to a halt. Balance is needed, not political wars.

 

Aye, that's 'boot reet, mate.

 

Agreed!

 

I'm sure this is just a misunderstanding. No administration would be so arrogant to ignore the what the people actually care about. It would be like living under a dictator.

 

Long live the Tazmanian Fruit Bat

 

So, "The Public Sector" is only good for setting objectives for the private sector, the unions are all out for some amorphous self benefit, and the private sector is quite efficient.

What the private sector is efficient at is overcharging for EVERYTHING the public sector has been highly efficient at providing. For example take Medicaid and Medicare. Since we have introduced privatized drug policies the average cost of drugs for members of those private drug "benefits" has risen far over the usual inflation rate.

For example, take the VA hospital system. The costs for operating VA hospitals and providing superior care over any private hospital is about as low as can be reasonably expected even with the mandates to privatize drug acquisition. Luckily, the VA can bargain for cheap prices under contracts with drug providers, unlike the Medicare system.

For example, take military activity. The private sector has managed to raise the cost of providing military protection so high it has created a whole new industry; the Private Army industry. Charging ten or twenty times as much as the official, PUBLIC military, they have managed to practically single handedly bankrupt our military budget in addition to creating a supremely dangerous situation for ordinary citizens.

Without public intervention we would still be using slave labor in our industries. Oops, slave labor is still being used in our clothing and agriculture industries; just one more of the unplanned benefits of deregulation.
The private sector even has evolved a highly efficient, foolproof, super low wage system; hire the undocumented.

Without public intervention we would still be troubled with coat hanger abortions. But just wait a while; there are private sector advocates for a return to those days.

The main reason poor countries are poor isn't because of the public sector; it's because of the rapacious deeds of the private sector, not the least of which is the IMF!

It would be nice if you got your facts correct. Although;

"A man who does not know the truth is just an idiot but
a man who knows the truth and calls it a lie is a crook."
Bertolt Brecht

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Originally Posted by tripp
Remember, regulation is bad for the people. The private sector knows best.
I know it was stated somewhat tongue in cheek, but there needs to be a balance. The private sector has proven quite efficient in many areas when there is adequate incentive to do so. The public sector is painfully inefficient and ineffective, though when it devises appropriate incentives for the private sector, can achieve desired objectives.

But just be careful how regulation is accomplished. As per my prior example, if any project that produces incremental CO2 can be shut down because it "threatens" polar bears due to "global warming", that is a pretty draconian public policy. Taken to its ultimate conclusion, you couldn't build a road, put up a building, or for that matter, cut a fart without violating the law.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Godiva
No. But it reduces the disturbance and impact. What I believe is that without these laws in place and enforced there would be even worse damage and destruction done by the private sector in the pursuit of profit.

Capitalism isn't about sensitivity to the environment or consideration of the public. If it was, it wouldn't be called Capitalism

 

Huh?

 

An owl is an owl. There's no point in reducing the quality of life for people just because this one has spots. This is rediculous. It's not like elimiating tigers by cutting down their habitat.

The spotted owl is on the way out anyway. It's being replaced by a stronger family of owls. Evolution happens.

Wikipedia.

"The Spotted Owl is similar in appearance to the Barred Owl but has cross-shaped markings on the underparts whereas the Barred Owl is alternately barred on the breast and streaked on the belly. Barred Owls are larger and grayer than Spotted Owls. In recent years the California and Northern subspecies of Spotted Owl have been displaced by Barred Owls, which are more aggressive, have a broader diet and occur in more varied habitats"

Why would anyopne care if a particular owl has spots? Are they especially delicious? Can I grind them up and run my car on them?

We can live without spotted owls and snail darters.

 

Well, if you put it that way, the same could be said of humans...'on their way out.'

 

Please, some documentation. I would like to use whatever you have that proves it to arrange for whoever is trying to interfere with those VA patient's rights to be put into the slammer. Is that the 14th amendment and subsequent Federal and state legislation they would be screwing with?

 

How true. Species die out and the Earth keeps on chugging along. It gets warmer and colder and the earth just keeps on going as species rise an fall. That's probably what'll keep on happening until our sun conks out.

BTW - We could stand to lose about 4 or 5 billion people. Don't ask me which ones or how, but we do have too many people on this rock.