Bush says larger Army!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Dec 20 2006, 01:49 PM) [snapback]364806[/snapback]</div>

"Actual quote?" After looking for the source of the quote, I don't think it is real. I've never been able to track this one down. Its attributed to an "anonymous general" in some accounts, and to military personnel in lesser ranks in others. But it has not been, as far as I know, actually tied to a person. You know, a name.

Officers in the armed services are usually not idiots (they have college degrees, although I will admit that's no guarantee of common sense). Generals, in most cases, are pretty bright people. The reason I tried researching the phrase is because I'm not sure if the "it" refers to the village, or another "it" that is buried in the context of the paragraph the phrase was in. For instance:

"There was a city with ten thousand people right beside the village. We had to destroy the village to save it."

So the phrase could have made perfect sense as a Hobson's choice type of thing, with the "it" not referring to the village, but to something else. It is also possible that the original speaker, if it was really spoken, was using the term "village" in the sense that we use it in books like "It Takes a Village to Raise a Child" ... as we certainly don't think that mud huts and grass roofs really do a good job of child rearing.

In other words, the original quote could be something like:

"The village is really the local culture, the people, their memories and their beliefs. This village has been overrun by Viet Cong, and most of the men killed. Those that escaped are waiting to return. The women and children were being subjugated to what is in effect slave labor to serve their new masters. The only way to restore the local community was to drive out the Viet Cong, and allow the men to come back, the local culture to rebuild, and retain the true spirit of the village. We had to destroy the village to save it."

While its comforting to think that every smart person thinks just like me, and every person who doesn't think like me must be dumb, I know that there are smart people who disagree with me. So I take these "stupid" remarks with a huge grain of salt.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Dec 20 2006, 11:23 PM) [snapback]364924[/snapback]</div>

Well, that's among the things I have found most bizarre about this entire mess. If a civilian suggests that we withdraw, aka "cut and run", they are instantly smeared as being unpatriotically disrespectful to our soldiers in Iraq. But at the same time, the overwhelming majority of our soldiers in Iraq are saying "get out of Iraq". I just can't image having the arrogance to think that I understood the situation better than the people who are actually fighting the war. But that doesn't seem to stop a lot of people.

Of course, when you think about it, that's how this whole mess got off the ground. When the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff (Shalikashvili ?) said, in effect, you need twice the troops and a plan if you want to pull this off, Mr. Bush's response was to replace him with a yes-man. I just can't imagine the mindset that says "yes, this is your profession, yes, you've been as successful as you could possibly be at it, yes, you're the one who will actually have to run this operation, and yes, you just committed career suicide by publicly disagreeing with me, but no, I'm not going to listen to you even one tiny bit, instead I'm going to take my advice from people who've never served, never done this for a living, who bear no responsbility for implementing it and will not be held accountable if it fails". Tough to imagine a worse strategy for making a major decision. Even tougher for me to imaging the arrogance and amorality of the decisionmaker.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(chogan @ Dec 21 2006, 08:30 AM) [snapback]365002[/snapback]</div>

And even in regard to upping troop levels, Bush is again ignoring and running contrary to the advice of the experienced military.
The Bush administration is split over the idea of a surge in troops to Iraq, with White House officials aggressively promoting the concept over the unanimous disagreement of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, according to U.S. officials familiar with the intense debate.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...1801477_pf.html
or
President Confronts Dissent on Troop Levels
Bush Indicates Military Won't Dictate Numbers; Top General to Retire
....Gen. John P. Abizaid, his top Middle East commander and a leading skeptic of a so-called surge, announced his retirement.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...6122000308.html

I mean, how is ignoring the advice of experienced soldiers a way to win a war?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fshagan @ Dec 20 2006, 10:40 PM) [snapback]364975[/snapback]</div>

I have to admit that I do not have a source for the quote. It was credible because it seemed consistent with U.S. government attitude: The official line was that we were there to save the Vietnamese people, when in fact we were massacring women and children wholesale and indiscriminately. However, I will defer to your conclusion that the actual quote may be apocryphal.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MegansPrius @ Dec 21 2006, 05:50 AM) [snapback]365017[/snapback]</div>

As I've been saying all along, the neo-cons should be the ones demanding Bush's impeachment the loudest, because if you want to win a war, you cannot put a moron in charge of it.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Dec 21 2006, 11:39 AM) [snapback]365115[/snapback]</div>

You know...the vietnamese people seem to be doing OK without us there. Maybe the people in Iraq can also.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MegansPrius @ Dec 20 2006, 04:45 PM) [snapback]364803[/snapback]</div>

Naaaa, that would just give the left something else to complain & nit pick about.

I was listening to Sirius Patriot today, one thing the conservs. are not happy with, is the promise from the Goverment to shrink the goverment (but that hasn't happend).. It wont happen no matter whos in office once they feel the power its spend spend spend..

The goverment was supposed to be down sized to make way for a more technological based military, but that hasn't happend yet.



Im all for a bigger military. I would like to see Gov spending cut to more than 1/2 of what it is today though :mellow: ...

Where is this Majority of the armed forces wanting to pull out coming from? a cpl that said something on the news? or parents saying so from letters? For most troops its just a dangerous job over there. Did you know weve lost 60% of so many in Iraq and we lose the same amount in D.C. and they have stricter gun contorol laws there . I say we pull out of Wash. d.c.

For the middle class, I wonder if in Jan 2007 you where told that 1/2 of your earnings where going to taken from each pay check, and that you would no longer reicieve a tax return because the money was being given to support your next door neighbor who cant find a job & others like them.. How would you feel ? Would you readily give up your hard earned money? would you beable to afford that Prius, or the house.?

1/2 means say you make 40k a year you would then only make 20k ect ect.

Or would you rather they just take it from the rich? in this country rich can be concidered 60k - 500k a year.

Bottom line I hear from alot from the lefties is they want the Gov to supply healthcare, tax the rich, (rich would be in the eye of the beholder) make everyone get the same pay, have the same houses, same cars & support the poor. We could then have a broke cookie cutter USA..

I wonder if most Hybrid owners snif their farts too? like the link.
http://www.hybridcars.com/video-animation/...ybrid-smug.html

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(priusguy04 @ Dec 21 2006, 08:56 AM) [snapback]365141[/snapback]</div>

Better than a USA where 10% are rich and 90% are poor..... Highly unequal distribution of wealth is always a bad thing. Did no one learn from the erros Reagan made in his selfishness?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(priusguy04 @ Dec 21 2006, 08:56 AM) [snapback]365141[/snapback]</div>

Anyone who think that earning $60,000 a year makes someone "rich" is detached from reality. That is the starting salary for new police officers and deputy sheriffs in Southern California.

By the way, the word is spelled c-o-n-s-i-d-e-r-e-d.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(F8L @ Dec 21 2006, 12:27 PM) [snapback]365168[/snapback]</div>

Probably more like 2% are technically rich- what President Bush call's his base.

“What an impressive crowd: the haves, and the have-mores. Some people call you the elite, I call you my base.â€
- George W. Bush, 2000 Campaign

And I agree a highly stratified America is ultimately a mistake for the majority.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(huskers @ Dec 20 2006, 03:09 PM) [snapback]364788[/snapback]</div>

Yes, we need to occupy more countries like Iraq so they can feel all our love.

Occupying Iraq is the problem not the solution. Putting more military in Iraq is only going to put more gasoline on the fire. Bush simply can not see that. Blaire in the UK can't either.

WAKE UP.

I believe people around the globe understand that "We the people" of the USA want nothing more than to pull out of Iraq. But until Bush is out of office I can not see how this problem is going away. God help us until then.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(F8L @ Dec 21 2006, 12:27 PM) [snapback]365168[/snapback]</div>

Take the highest earning 10%. Tell me what's the lowest income per year.

I'll wager it's a lot higher than $60,000.

$60,000 *is* the middle class.

$40,000 a year is low income. You can't buy a house if you only make $40,000 a year. Even if you had the entire price in cash, you couldn't pay the taxes and insurance and still buy food and utilities.


Then examine the income of that highest 10%. Because in there are the uber wealthy. The annual incomes in the billions. Those that couldn't even spend the interest in a year. And they're the ones that are getting the tax breaks.

 

Oh yes....

You hear about the number who die often. But how about the number of wounded?

Check this out:

Scroll down to the bottom of the following link:

Number of wounded

Yikes !! 22032 wounded as of the end of November 2006.

There is much more to see on that web site. Very informative. Why isn't the media reporting this as much as the number who have died? I had no idea the number of wounded were so high.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Dec 20 2006, 01:49 PM) [snapback]364806[/snapback]</div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Dec 21 2006, 08:39 AM) [snapback]365115[/snapback]</div>

That's funny! :lol: ROFLMAO :lol: You don't have the source of the quote???? . . . I doubt Peter Arnett has one either . . . since he refuses to say anything about which officer purportedly made the statement. :huh:

Arnett quoting a U.S. army officer in Vietnam, when asked about the background for the use of much heavy artillery against a small village.
"We had to destroy the village in order to save it."
(A number of researchers and observers, including prof. Victor Davis Hanson and Mona Charen, believes this quote is a fabrication of Arnett's. Arnett has refused to say anything about which officer he allegedly quoted. They have further pointed out that the village in question (Ben Tre) was destroyed by hostile Vietnamese forces rather than US forces. However it should be pointed out that "hostile Vietnamese" could just as easily refer to the South Vietnamese Army, with which the US Army had extensive co-operation, and the biographies of the two people as linked above certainly raise questions about the relative partisanship and sophistry of the criticisms too)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Arnett

Yep, the same Peter Arnett who was fired from NBC, MSNBC and National Geographic for his interview on state-run Iraq TV on March 31, 2003. The same Peter Arnett who brought us the "BABY MILK PLANT IRAQ" bombing story. The same Peter Arnett who tried to lend credence to Operation Tailwind. :angry:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Tailwind

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Dec 21 2006, 08:39 AM) [snapback]365115[/snapback]</div>

So, does that mean it's open warfare on reality because “It was credible because it seemed consistent with . . .â€

No wonder people get so twisted in their belief of what reality consist of.

 

My $0.02 worth...

For once I agree with Bush, partly anyway. Yes we do need a larger military so long as GW goes on with his war, reservists serving 3 and 4 tours is way over the top.

Now if Bush's supporters who are of military age would sign up, we would go a long way to meeting that comitment. Besides that his supporters could honestly stand up and say "I supported our president, and did something about it", but I fear most would rather do this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmsOIjzQ1V8

 

The operation was a success, but the patient died.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IsrAmeriPrius @ Dec 21 2006, 12:55 PM) [snapback]365190[/snapback]</div>

Hah, shows what you know there IsrAmeriPrius, :huh:

I guess theres alot of people that dont live in Florida that are detached from REALITY. :blink:

In Florida Deputy Sheriffs start at 27k and top out around 45-50k.
City Police Officers start at 32-33k a yr and top out at 50-60k a yr. depending on what city you work for.

Thank you again for the spelling lesson, CONCIDERED (I like to keep the spelling Nazi's jobs secure) I guess you could say I spell it like the english do just how its pronounced....
My reports have spelling and punctuation checkers so all I have to do is type it out a poof hit the yellow button.. :lol:

But last I had heard Cailifornia was close to being broke as far as state funds were concerned...
Each state has a different pay scale. In education a school principle makes between 60-70k with a cost of living raise added each year. In NY a school principle makes 109k to start per yr . B)

So the people that would be concidered poor here make at or just above minimum wage. (5.75 an hr) They either still live with their parents or they rent section 8 housing.

Just for the record 20 yrs ago I purchased a forclosed MOBILE HOME for 13k lived in it up till 6yrs ago. I sold it for $1200. I then purchased my 290k home from investments and savings. How did I do it?

I did not live above my means, ie: no cable tv, basic phone service, a pager instead of a cell phone, no A/C I even drove an old 80's ford pick-up that needed a ring job,(looked like a fogger truck going down the road) and had PIP ins, I lived on Hormel chili, vienna sausages, baked beans, TV dinners, ramen noodles, water & check soda and if I needed health care I would go to the county clinic. (pay based on what you make). Even a trip to the dentist was pay what you can up front and make payments of $15 a pay check..

A trip to McDonalds once a month was a classy meal..

Boy Howdie i've come a long way in 6 yrs .... (yes I lived on $3.65- $7.50 an hr.) Working everything from framing - whopper flopper - security - ditch digger- landscaper till now a police officer. Thats 20yrs of penny pinching, I was happy then I hadn't lived anyother way. If I couldn't afford it , I didn't buy it. and I survived just fine.

So those who whine and say they are poor and they are struggling living on minimum wage & need a break. Heres the want ads, theres plenty of jobs that pay you just have to be willing to do the work.

The only exception would be someone who is truely medically unable to work then yes provide the health care and disability money. other wise WORK & PAY your HEALTHCARE and stop WHINING.!

( hmm I wonder how many people would try and use medically unfit to be able to sit around and get paid for it??)

Now I live the middle class life (here in Sunny Florida) and Im happyer (I have the little extras).. B)

But I guess if you can afford a Prius, your not poor or considered upper lower middle class in any state..

There I even added the smileys for the others who enjoy them so..

Our military even makes at or above minimum wage, They signed up for the work and are doing the work even thought like some jobs it can be dangerous and you may not come home... I dont here people rallying for the police and fire fighters... Instead we want to bring them home, build a base there like in japan and germany.. make it occupied.

Make the military bigger and down size the senate, the house, divide states into groups of 5 and assigned one senator per each 5 states one rep for each 5 states, that would cut out all the DEMS & REPUBS that are making 100k or more and put the money back into other things.

But that wont happen and we will have to live with the next guy that gets into office on empty promises.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tleonhar @ Dec 21 2006, 04:45 PM) [snapback]365373[/snapback]</div>

Might I ask, for what?

Don't say it's so we'll be safer.
I think it's pretty clear that a big ponderous military sledgehammer doesn't work in a world where scalpels are being proven more effective.

And don't say that it's good for the economy.
Funneling dollars to the military industrial complex has been proven repeatedly not to be the best way to fuel long term economic growth.

We've already got the best of everything, and lots of it...we can hardly afford what we're paying for now...why on EARTH would we ever want to even consider this option?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tleonhar @ Dec 21 2006, 01:45 PM) [snapback]365373[/snapback]</div>

FANTASTIC!!!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(stanlwyjohn @ Dec 20 2006, 03:51 PM) [snapback]364774[/snapback]</div>

And you don't see Bush's 2 daughters joining the military. I believe the draft was a good thing in that it built dicipline and other positive values in young people. However, I also would NOT enlist in the military during any war. Bush should be impeached & kicked out along with the VP and the puppet Rice. Young men and women are dying every day for NOTHING.