Featured bZ4X already recalled for wheels coming loose

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by Gokhan, Jun 24, 2022.

  1. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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  2. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Guess doing a BEV isn't as easy as they said.
     
  3. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    What is unbelievable about it?

    Having some issue with stems, nuts, or torquing is a reveal that Toyota has taken a change... you know, the risk many claim Toyota never takes. It's easy to see how that could have been an attempt to lighten wheel weight that went bad.

    The real story is how Toyota addresses the problem, especially since it has nothing whatsoever to do with the EV system itself. Treating owners well makes a huge difference. Look at how poorly GM's response with Bolt turned out.
     
    #3 john1701a, Jun 24, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2022
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  4. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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  5. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    You mean Toyota has reinvented the wheel? ;)

    I doubt more than a handful customer have received their bZ4X orders. Some apparently almost had their wheels come off.

    This is very strange. Toyota, unlike Tesla, is a very reliable OEM and has so much experience. Could this be as simple as someone forgetting to torque the wheel nuts at the factory? Could it be something more complex such as the hardness levels of the bolts and nuts? It remains to be seen.

    Speaking of bolts or nuts coming loose, the Toyota OEM oil drain-plug gasket 90430-12031 was made of hard black fiber for a long time. Because it was so hard, it almost always came loose. Luckily, I never had oil leakage, but I could unscrew the drain plug with light finger pressure at every oil change. They fixed the problem about ten years or so when they transitioned to the aluminum oil drain-plug gaskets covered in soft blue gasket material. When the mating parts are too hard, they have a tendency to come loose.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    #5 Gokhan, Jun 24, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2022
  6. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Inspection of vehicles used by reviewers was a great opportunity to collect real-world data in an accelerated manner. Actually finding an issue was obviously a surprise, but sooner is always better. Loose from incorrect torque or new components is realistic and should be just a basic fix. Confirming what's really needed is the challenge. Vehicles will end up waiting at port for the update, then waiting for transport to dealers.

    Decades ago, when I had a wheel issue with my new Taurus, it turned out to be a simple stem/nut problem. Something was just loose enough that it squeaked from time to time. I also ended up replacing the lock-nuts with the regular type when one got stuck and had to be cut off. It was a simple swap and the parts were only a few bucks. No big deal. So, I'm not worried about this being much of an issue for delivery of my bZ4X.

    From the perspective of others, Toyota is doomed and their first dedicated-platform BEV is already a failure. Ugh.
     
  7. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Why would Toyota's ev need to lighten wheel weight, if Toyota chose to NOT make an ev that's especially heavy
    If toyota didn't bench all their BZ cars - wouldn't the national highway branch of the gvm't step in & do it for them? How do you see Toyota's decision to address the problem as being any different from what any other manufacturer would do.
    so .... benching cars is an example of treating owners well .....
    deflection?
     
  8. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    treating owners well would be dropping off a loaner at their home or place of business. i hate recalls, my time is money, dealers get paid by mfg.
     
  9. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Does this sad affair with the recall mean Stealerships will at least reduce their $9,999 price hikes?
    IMG_20220626_120627.jpg
    yea probably not
    .
     
  10. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Hey, that's almost the Canadian price! :ROFLMAO: ($62,750 for a XLE w/ Technology Package. Add $1,890 for PDI and other fees and it's $65,365 pre-tax). An ID.4 Pro S AWD is $58,000 MSRP fully loaded, Ioniq 5 LR AWD w/ Ultimate Package is $59,995 and an EV6 GT-Line Package 2 is $$61,995.

    So why is the Toyota more expensive than the competition at the top end? (Still cheaper than Mach-E but the Mach-E has a bigger battery).

    My suggestion is the LE FWD at $49,990 which is on par with the ID.4 Pro AWD, splits the difference between the Ioniq5 Preferred RWD and the Ioniq5 Preferred Long Range RWD ($47k and $52k respectively) and is cheaper than the EV6 LR RWD at $52,995.

    Plus, a 135kW ID.4 Pro will charge faster than the 150kW bZ4X LE FWD as it'll have a higher average power.
     
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  11. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    The Kia and Hyundai are charging faster than the Toyota, but do you think the battery will see life past 50,000 miles? ;) I remember the 1990s where the junkyards were filled with brand-new-looking Hyundai Excels, and the 2020s could be a repeat of the history with the Hyundai and Kia EVs. Note that there is no warranty on the EV batteries after a few years, and once the battery is worn, the car could end up in the junkyard. Well, let's hope the early EV adopters don't run into these problems. :)
     
  12. Georgina Rudkus

    Georgina Rudkus Senior Member

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    I wonder if, like the GM Bolt, Hyundai and Kia will continue their history of their cars catching fire.

     
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  13. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Yeah because everybody knows it's only Kia GM etc that go up in smoke, anyone else but Toyota.
    U.S. investigates nearly 1.9 million Toyota RAV4s over fire risks

    Toyota-RAV4-caught-fire.jpg
    Whoops - never mind
    :rolleyes:
    If we all keep our words soft and sweet - they're much easier to chew & swallow
    (our plug-in minivan is on fire risk recall right now. No one manufacturer is exempt)
    .
     
    #13 hill, Jun 28, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2022
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  14. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Plenty of cars have been recalled over fires started in the 12 volt electrical system before we started putting high powered batteries into them.
    With adequate cooling, the battery should be fine. Teslas charge faster than Toyota, and the majority of them wouldn't need a replacement under Toyota's warranty.
     
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  15. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    Cooling doesn't help with lithium-metal coating on the inner anode surface caused by fast-charging.

    The California battery warranty only applies to hybrid & plug-in hybrid electric vehicles. There is no battery warranty for battery electric vehicles. This is what happens:

    Aggrieved Tesla owner obliterates Model S with dynamite
     
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  16. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Is that only for the Tesla in CA or all of Tesla in other states? I am sure bZ4X in CA and other states are warranted for 10yr/150K miles by Toyota, aren't they?

    Well, if that's the case, then everyone should buy a VinFast with the battery lease plan. The only thing I don't know is what happens to the car if an owner stops paying for the battery leasing fee? Would they come repo only the battery????
     
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  17. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    That's very good. Toyota gave the same warranty for their BEV as required by California for the HEVs & PHEVs.

    This is where Toyota makes the difference. Now, stop complaining about slower charging. You can't change the rules of physics.

    California vehicle and emissions warranty periods | California Air Resources Board
     
  18. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    I don't know. I'll let you know at 50,000 miles.

    Besides, it's not like I charge at 3C every week. How often do you road trip? twice a year? I've done two so far and only one "required" the 350kW DCFC. The other I got by with L2 charging and one 15 minute stop at a 50kW DCFC.
     
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  19. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    So Tuesday, I left Huntsville a little after noon, 12:18 PM, and drove 721 miles to Coffeyville KS to arrive at ~5:30 AM. There were:
    • traffic delays to Athens SuperCharger, +30 min
    • I-40 construction delays, +60 min
    • skip midway motel to reach Ozark SuperCharger, reduced to 50 mph zt one point to reach, +20 min
    • cat-nap at Lowell 3:00 AM, +60 min
    • round-trip charge for Joplin-to-Coffeyville, +40 min
    Posted from motel room in Coffeyville, KS.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  20. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    I referring to warranty for battery degradation Toyota was talking about during the release hype for the bZ4X. Turns out what we get in the US isn't better than what the Model 3 RWD has; 70% minimum capacity after 8yrs or 100k miles. Other Tesla models have higher mileage limits.
    2023 Toyota Bz4x Manuals & Warranties | Toyota Owners
    Vehicle Warranty | Tesla

    Hyundai's is 10yrs/100k miles for 70%.
    Hyundai Warranty Coverage | America's Best | Hyundai USA

    bZ4X in Europe has a 10yr/ million km for 70% capacity retention. If you do the annual testing. I thought it was 90% capacity, but Toyota is saying they expect it have 90% after that time. A lot of Teslas have done 100k miles with less than 10% capacity loss.

    The point is, unless fast DC charging is the majority of the car's charging, these cars will easily go 50k miles without needing a new battery.
     
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