Featured Cadillac, the latest Tesla killer

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by bwilson4web, Jan 10, 2019.

  1. dubit

    dubit Active Member

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    We were chuckling about this at the dealership and in total, we were off the subject in less than 5 minutes. Later, we went on Twitter to troll Cadillac - but it seems everyone else beat us to it. lol
     
  2. El Dobro

    El Dobro A Member

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  3. Georgina Rudkus

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    I went to the Greenville, SC Motor Trend Auto Show, yesterday. They still have the Chevrolet Sonic and the Kruse on display. The ladies in the booth were clueless that these cars had been discontinued.

    Most analysts believe that the switch from cars to highly profitable trucks and SUVs is to the reason that GM will be more profitable in the future, not EV's. There was no Bolt at the show, and the Volt has been discontinued.
     
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  4. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

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    What I find amusing is that people want more plug ins and while GM is one of the only ones that has made acceptable offerings in any volume that you can buy in any state of the union
    people lambast them the whole way.

    Chrysler told you not to buy their BEV and people still like their compliance car that breaks half shafts left and right. Both of their plug ins have had lengthy recall campaigns.

    Fords offerings sell poorly and many have battery degradation issues and poor range/efficiency.

    Smart sells poorly and has poor tech and a short range.

    Mitsubishi honestly had the best BEV for the money for a long time but were made fun of.

    Nissan has an OK offering but their batteries fall to half capacity in short order and their warranty is hard to collect on.

    BMW has immense reliability issues and certainly isn’t affordable.

    Toyota has fought offering a plug in the whole way and is hard to even locate outside of NJ/RI

    Honda has barely been in the market

    Kia/Hyundai are interesting but less affordable in the real world and also half in compliance mode.

    Tesla is still too expensive to justify


    So I guess given the landscape why is the anger focused just on GM?

    All companies are cold heartless beasts and no company save Tesla is really greener than the other.

    Shouldn’t we appreciate that plug ins are finally available?
    Even if only in California and the east coast?

    I ended up with a Volt because it was the only plug in reasonably priced in a 250 mile radius, for anything else I would have had to fly out and drive it back somehow. (Leaf included)

    GM at least seems dedicated to plug ins even if misguided and initially priced over the magic $20000 price point everyone wants.
     
  5. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Remember how ... the mirai even at the beginning of last year was the tesla killer.

    Toyota On Mirai Vs. Tesla: Battery Electric Vehicles Have 'Fundamental' Physics Problem
    2017 Toyota Mirai vs. 2017 Tesla Model S | Toyota Santa Monica
    ‘Fool cell’ Toyota Mirai trounces ‘S-curve’ Tesla Model 3

    This cadillac is not as challenged as the mirai, but it will not kill tesla, it may even help tesla sales as more people get familiar with driving electric, and more infrastructure is produced.

    Last year plug-ins grew 80% in the US and china is now a bigger market. Hopefully cadillac will be sucessful in a BEV. Welcome to the party. The ELR was kind of a joke. More choices mean more plug-ins. Its not a zero sum game. The US plug-in market actually grew even when tesla was excluded because model 3 excitement got more people ready to buy primes, and bolts, and clarity phevs.

    Why does a mirai get so much higher of a subsidy in california than a prime? It makes no sense to me, but really the prime needs nothing more than the federal government subsidy to be less expensive than a non plug-in prius. Perhaps toyota will redesign it with a full back seat, and better battery pack and better acceleration that can sell when subsidies end.
     
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  6. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    $33,520 was lowest MSRP they were able to deliver, for a small hatchback lacking common features. That is not acceptable.


    30, not 20.

    Remember the "nicely under $30,000" target GM set? That was set for good reason. It would make the tech affordable enough to compete with their often traditional offerings.

    Over promise, under deliver... yet, again.
     
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  7. El Dobro

    El Dobro A Member

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  8. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    I would rather have a company set aggressive goals that they fall short of, rather than lazy, 'safe' goals which they then meet.
     
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  9. Georgina Rudkus

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    Goals are good, but only for "guinea pigs" aka early adopters. Not for me.
     
  10. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Know your audience. Ordinary showroom shoppers are in strong disagreement with your early-adopter perspective.

    Change leadership isn't the rollout of vehicles unable to achieve high-volume profitable sales. Falling short has consequences.

    As for calling the mass-appeal approach "lazy", that's shows lack of understanding what it takes to really create a vehicle with ubiquitous potential.

    Notice what all those unending personal insults have in common? None want to address the actual problem. They're efforts to distract from goals.
     
    #30 john1701a, Jan 12, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019
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  11. iplug

    iplug Senior Member

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    The unremitting partisanship is quite something to behold.

    But to his credit, this is a Prius fan site and if one is able to ignore the unilateral devotion, he actually provides a lot of useful data and reporting.
     
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  12. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    [​IMG]

    If these two can get chummy, everybody should be able to snuggle up.

    .
     
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  13. El Dobro

    El Dobro A Member

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    Yea, but maybe they were just sharing a joint.
     
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  14. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    So none then.

    Yeah, it is a different market, but how miles do Prii need to be driven to equal the fuel use or emission reduction one GM hybrid bus gets on a city route?

    Notice your i3 REx isn't on the list. Already cancelled in Europe, and the BEV model likely won't get a second generation.
    The US isn't the global market. Voltec models are increasing in China.
    Market forces differ across the world.

    The Volt was an honest attempt from GM that built upon EV1 and two-mode knowledge. And while some here can't admit it, they made strides in reducing cost, improving performance, and addressing customer viewed short comings with the second generation. GM's real failure with it was not putting it is a CUV for the US market.

    In contrast, the Prius Prime took some steps back as a second generation PHEV. It's saving grace is that government and corporate incentives mean it can be had for less than the no-plug Prius. While there is some talk that a standard battery pack can make the expansion of Primes easier, there is no word of a Camry Prime, and it is going into its second year. Still early to call it on a Rav4 Prime, but I think the Outlander PHEV, Model Y, possible Escape PHEV, and maybe this Cadillac will be the pressure that has Toyota release one.
    Hey, hydrogen fueled cars aren't a safe goal, though I think Mazda has done more there than Toyota.

    Sure it isn't the independent dealers and not shoppers?
    They did spend a lot of effort and money fighting Tesla stores.

    Those pushing boundaries gets others to move out of their comfort zones. Atari wasn't the first console video game, the Kindle wasn't the first eReader, and the iPhone not the first smart phone.

    If GM didn't make the Volt, the Prime likely would not be as affordable as it is now. Toyota may not have even done the PiP to get to the Prime. Toyota has been very successful as a fast follower, but followers need leaders

    Not lazy, but not very inspiring.

    We see the flaws in the Volt, but its development was heading towards the affordable model. Just like Tesla's business plan.

    But blaming the Volt's failure on just GM's design decisions, and implying their hybrid system is a failure is the lazy path. If you haven't noticed car sales are in decline; just look at the past 3 years of Camry, Corolla, and Prius sales, and now the entire auto market is going into a slow down.

    Two-mode SUVs and pick ups failed, and the IMA Accord also died an early death. Two-mode buses are still being made, and the system in the new Accord hybrid rivals Toyotas; the Clarity PHEV may surpass the Prime in sales with it.

    A Voltec SUV attempt in the US would have been nice, but it still may happen. We are getting a Cadillac on a BEV platform. Toyota is only selling one in China, with the GM Voltecs.
     
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  15. iplug

    iplug Senior Member

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    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    It may be a few months before we have 2018 full year data reported by InsideEVs (they pushed this out in September 2018).

    Tesla is quite possibly champion that year with the spin-up of Model 3 sales in the last half of the year. Hyundai/Kia are likely to move up in market share with the Kona and Niro, if they produce them in any quantity. Still, missing Toyota on the top 10.:(
     
  16. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Who here? I can't recall anyone ever saying they didn't made strides (major at that) in cost reduction and improved performance. The complaint has been listening to the wrong customers. Asking enthusiasts how to make the design more appealing to mainstream shoppers was always a fool's errand. Know your audience.

    As for the real failure, I was one shouting repeatedly about that. How many hundreds of times did I post "too little, too slowly" about GM's hesitation to take the next step.... their laziness, if you will... or lack of risk taking... for not diversifying Voltec offerings. That started way back when Volt-1 started having sales trouble, when it was obvious the wrong audience had been targeted.
     
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  17. markabele

    markabele Senior Member

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    "know your audience"
    LOL
     
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  18. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    The captive California audience has been starved for Prii of all types for weeks now. There are only 1 or none at dealerships yet the east coast is swimming in them:cool:.

    Someone doesnt know their audience it appears(y).
     
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  19. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Toyota knows that its true customers are dealers, since they are the ones choosing what inventory to stock. Dealers know that selling anything during the winter doldrums is always a challenge. I suspect there will be a supply blitz supported by an advertising campaign taking advantage of void left behind by GM to draw attention to the new RAV4 and Prius hybrids. Stirring interest in Prime tends to work best as Earth Day approaches.
     
    #39 john1701a, Jan 12, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019
  20. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    and a 2019 prime with zero improvements :rolleyes:
     
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