Featured California to boycott Toyota products

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by Arroyo, Nov 29, 2019.

  1. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    it must have been expensive
     
  2. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    When newer information is available I’ll be happy to update my opinion.
    From 2012 to 2017 Toyota’s fleet average dropped. That data is per the EPA.
    This is not incorrect information, but does record only through 2017 as you noted.

    Do you have more recent data?
     
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  3. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    States can be autonomous as far as internal issues (smog etc) but certain issues are national level like climate change.
    If CA makes super-strict rule for global climate change that impacts USA auto market.

    All of this is based on relatviely recent EPA ruling that CO2 is a pollutant, and an earlier law that said CA can exceed EPA requirements. But the idea of CA exceeding EPA strictness was intended to allow solving the smog problem, not to allow CA to become a renegade state on climate change activism per their internal liberal politics of how to solve that problem.

    Peraps the "fix" is to classify pollutants as "local" (smog precusors) or "global" (CO2) and not let the states run amok on global issues, to the extent that that impacts national level car market etc.
     
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  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    Aren’t they still trying to solve the smog problem
     
  5. John321

    John321 Active Member

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  6. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Once China's air turned brown, & everybody in their major cities started wheezing with watery eyes, they realize fixing that brown air problem meant forcing Toyota et al to build Electric. Between decisions like that, & building the largest hydroelectric dam in the world? Seems like they are showing us the REAL way to cut smog - and collaterally, becoming more efficient.
     
    #46 hill, Dec 2, 2019 at 12:58 PM
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2019 at 1:23 PM
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  7. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    china took on all of polluting manufacturing. theyve got a lot more than cars on their plate
     
  8. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Toyota and others are being boycotted because they are actively siding against California in the case.

    From the OP link, “only purchase vehicles from Original Equipment Manufacturers (OEMs) that recognize the California Air Resources Board (CARB)’s authority to set greenhouse gas and zero emission vehicle standards, and which have committed to continuing stringent emissions reduction goals for their fleets.”

    Only Ford, Honda, VW, and BMW have agreed to follow California's standard. They don't have to worry about the boycott.
    GM, Toyota, Subaru, Mazda, FCA, Mercedes, and Hundai/Kia have all joined the feds against California, so they will all be boycotted.


    The federal government has regulations to favor purchasing from companies that employ the disabled and/or veteran/woman/minority owned, or just a small business over other sources, even if the other is cheaper. The feds are probably the largest, indirect employer of the blind in the country. Plus there are guidelines for choosing efficient products.

    Up to a few years ago, all the cars/minivans/trucks at our location were American brands. We now have a Tacoma. Not sure how that happened.

    California's proposed fleet MPG is slightly lower than what the EPA was originally. it might be the same accounting the increase in SUV sales.

    When the CARB states reached 40% of the market, they just started making almost everything CARB compliant.

    PA isn't 100% CARB, but NY and NJ are, so when separate CARB and fed versions were a thing, CA emission engines were an option here. It was a zero dollar one on the manufacturer build site. IIRC, the CARB engine was maybe 5hp less than the fed one.
     
  9. orenji

    orenji Senior Member

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    Tacoma are built in Texas. Pretty much American now (y)
     
  10. JosephG

    JosephG Member

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    Very few. The vast majority of California's vehicles are GM or Ford. This is symbolic, though it could actually be painful for GM who would lose tens of millions in sales.

    On CA freeways I see almost all Japanese and Korean cars myself, but that doesn't reflect the state's fleet.

    My understanding is the state will only buy from automakers who voluntarily agree to the state's stricter standards regardless of the outcome of the lawsuit so it's not technically a boycott of those that litigate. As you point out, the latter would certainly be illegal.
     
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  11. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    I would say the auto-vehcile smog problem is probably largely solved with ultra low sulfur gaso which enables superb activity of the 3-way cat converters. Trucks/diesels are now the biggest issue as far as vehcile emissions. I am not sure if, although gaso cars are approaching zero, how much the gaso filling stations contribute to the overall issue.

    Almost 100% of Cali's rhetoric in recent years has been to address climate change, and reduce reliance on petroleum. If they want to address smog they'd have to go for diesels/trucks, and I suspect they do not want to go there. I am not sure the smog problem remains so bad out there, in the sense they naturally get some smog with their geographic bowl effect. If smog is still bad, the gaso car contributuoin is now much less of the prob, I am thinking.

    This is the biggest fallacy with the liberal philosophy in my opinion. U.S. auto emissions are now essentially zero, and liberals are running around saying we are all being killed by the high levels of posions coming out. In another forum I coined the phrase "chemophobic extremism" to help describe this concept.
     
    #51 wjtracy, Dec 3, 2019 at 8:55 AM
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2019 at 9:01 AM
  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i've seen you state that opinion before, but i havent seen any data to back it up
     
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  13. JosephG

    JosephG Member

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    California has gone after diesel trucks. Particulate filters are required for older trucks since 2010. The crackdown on trucks was so severe it actually hurt some small trucking companies, but thanks to that you can actually breathe in Fresno now.

    Car smog is not "near zero", though you're right technology has dramatically lowered it. GDI vehicles have high particulate emissions,PM 2.5 emissions are greater for these than similar diesel light vehicles. Ozone has leveled out and remains a problem. While it's not contested, California has imposed stricter NOx standards regularly as well.
     
    #53 JosephG, Dec 3, 2019 at 9:34 AM
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2019 at 9:48 AM
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  14. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The emissions per car have dropped, but not to zero, and there are now more of them on the road.
     
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  15. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    Yes, and maybe it's because we are in Prius Chat, Prius being a Toyota based product.
    But what doesn't seem fair to me, is it seems like Toyota is almost singled out for derision for their stand and actions. Maybe as "Prius" owners we generally support the ecological stance more than a cross section of the masses?

    I could be wrong.
    But I still think this whole mess has degenerated into a whole lot that it shouldn't really be about.
    It's disappointing to me on both sides, that it comes down to States boycotting auto manufacturers, and auto manufacturers suing states. And arguments about whether States should have the power and right to implement and apply their own individual standards.

    If as I personally believe it should be about both promoting business and jobs, economy, and also working to increase environmental standards of fuel efficiency and emissions from auto manufacturers, it just seems to me there should be a better, more amiable compromise approach.

    This should be a debate, a discussion to an ends, but instead it's become a media, political, social and legal WAR.

    That IMO doesn't leave any party involved from either side looking good.
     
  16. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    this boycott may be a moot point. We were with friends in Montana over Thanksgiving & most there where California residents. They were passing around a "recall the governor" petition, of all things. That might sound absurd, getting rid of a governor, but California did it before. That's how Arnie Schwarzenegger got in, when Gray Davis got recalled. All this to say, just because the California wacky government wants to do something? eventually the public steps in, to rein in the disgusting Factor. It's one of the few effective ways to remind politicians to NOT major in the minors.
    .
     
  17. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    it is a political issue, begun by a politician. because we are not in fhopol, we are pussyfooting around the main point.
    it has nothing to do with jobs, the economy or the environment, and everything to do with corporate profits.
    you do live in the u.s, iirc, you can research the subject

    and youre right, it is because we are prius owners and toyota was once considered an environmental leader.
     
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  18. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    Disagree.

    It's about boycotting and hindering auto sales...that's jobs and economy.
    It's about environmental standards-that's the environment.
     
  19. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    the boycott is the reaction to the political trauma. it's not boycotting toyota in general, just the states vehicle purchases.
    the environmental standards are at political risk.

    a fish rots from the head down guido :cool:
     
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  20. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    Agree with the second line, disagree with the first.
    CA is not telling Toyota they can’t sell products in CA.
    They are saying we won’t buy from a company that is joining a suit against us.

    This is a small number, from what others have reported, so will have minimal impact on jobs and the economy of Toyota.
    Even if it were more cars, the impact on jobs and the economy, in general, would be zero. For every Toyota they don’t buy, they will buy another brand.
     
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