Calling a spade a spade

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-Current)' started by Marine Ray, Sep 1, 2020.

  1. Marine Ray

    Marine Ray Senior Member

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    This recent 25 minute video by a Toyota Master Technician drew some criticism on both Facebook PP groups. Presenter gives his advice on stale gas, charging schedule, special maintenance, tires, etc. Agree with most of the negative comments over at Facebook, but gotta give the presenter credit for knowing the 84 mph standard when our ICE comes on even with traction battery juice left. Since you all tend to call a spade a spade, let me know your thoughts.


     
  2. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    I found it troubling that he was propagating a misconception with his claims of "full" recharge and ended up posting:

    FULL charge is prevented automatically. When it shows 100% on the display, actual state-of-charge for the battery-pack is 84%. That upper limit is a buffer within the software for longevity. Owners don't need to do anything special when recharging daily.
     
  3. Marine Ray

    Marine Ray Senior Member

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    Thanks for adding that comment on video comments. We'll see if/how he responds.
     
  4. Washingtonian

    Washingtonian Senior Member

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    I enjoyed the video. I understand that he ignored how the battery is never fully charged or discharged due to the software. Interesting about the filters for the battery cooling system. I don't think the dealer ever checked them when it was in for the warranty maintenance every six months. I will have to check that myself. When he was talking about how a rear end accident can easily damage the battery, I couldn't help think about the person who wants to buy a rear ended Prime and turn it into a utility vehicle. One other thing: I typically add gas about every three months at my local Costco. Think I will be going to the CEMEX station that sells only gas without ethanol.
     
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  5. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    Another option would be to add a little Sta-bil fuel stabilizer. It is supposed to keep the fuel fresh for up to 2 years. That would be less expensive than using ethanol free gasoline.
     
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  6. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Had time to watch entire video. I do have to give him a credit that he seems to know about PRIME more than most average Toyota tech I have talked to at my local Toyota dealer. That being said, two points he made in the video bothered me. One is already mentioned by @john1701a, the "full charge" issue, and another is the 5Kmile/6month oil change recommendation. I just don't see why Prime (Prius or Rav4) needs to have oil changed at that interval when Toyota recommends 10Kmiles/12month interval.

    The final thought about the video is, although he seems to know the stuff, I am keep wondering how many Prius Prime has he really seen in his shop? He made it sound like he has seen Prius Prime in his shop a lot. But I am sure he has not seen any Rav4 Prime yet, and if what @schja01 told us is true, there are only a few Prius Prime in Chicago land.
     
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  7. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    these guys learn by the book, we learn by advice and experience. i'm sure it is a helpful video for most non priuschat owners.
    otoh, his advice doesn't match up with the o/m, does it?

    i am surprised that toyota didn't address the stale gas issue like they did in the pip.

    also, his advice regarding leaving the battery fully charged every night probably makes sense, but again, does not match up to the o/m.
    i agree with him, and don't understand why toyota won't be more specific on these issues.
     
    #7 bisco, Sep 2, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2020
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  8. RealCCN

    RealCCN Junior Member

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    Hello John,

    I am the creator of that video. I replied to your comment on the video.

    I understand that the software limits the SOC both upper and lower limit. However that is not always 84% I have spent a significant amount of time researching training/engineering documents on my side and even made a call to the engineering department and the universal answer is this.

    Max and min allowed SOC is variable dependent on many factors some of them are not published due to the propitiatory nature of the software and the hardware.

    Technically speaking full charge or 100% charge is what’s allowed by the software due to hardware safety limitations. So if I rephrase my wording it would still apply. Keep your prius prime battery at 84% most of the time is not a good idea long term. These are not my words, I am just the messenger.

    Huge respect to the community of owners and enthusiasts who are very familiar with their cars. And huge shout out to your knowledge and your awesome YouTube channel ( you have a new subscriber!) I’ve heard of the range of the prime being on the low side but that was the first time I saw it. Thank you for your videos.

    as I mentioned in my comment to you, I am a factory trained professional. I fix cars for a living and I am factory trained to work on prime models. However that doesn’t mean I know everything there is to know and never will. I am at my position with the company because I follow their own philosophy of kaizen. We can never stop learning and improving ourselves. And I wish to learn something new from the community.

    thank you for taking the time to watch my video.

    the community at priuschat wouldn’t buy a rear ended prime but the millions and millions of people who think the prime is a cool looking prius and don’t know any better wouldn’t know any better.

    not everyone is a car person, and while me and you would run they might bite and buy one and end up with a very big paper weight!

    people’s decisions regarding used car purchase especially Toyota are worrying sometimes. You’d be surprised how many cars find their way to my work bay that was just bought and it’s a total disaster and the customer response is “ but it’s a Toyota I thought it was a good car!”
     
    #8 RealCCN, Sep 2, 2020
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 2, 2020
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  9. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    Why say 5K oil changes then?? It has been 10K factory recommended since before 2015.
     
  10. RealCCN

    RealCCN Junior Member

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    the 5k/6 month oil change interval is highly debated. I will not debate this if you want to go to the 10k/1year route that’s fine because you are doing the right thing by following the manufacturers recommendation. However actual day to day experience and countless engine tear downs of 10k maintained engines vs 5k maintained engines told me otherwise.

    there are other reasons why Toyota went with the 10k oil changes. Due to my work relation with Toyota I cannot disclose that information. But all I will say is the engineering department didn’t have a big say in it.

    and regarding Chicago area primes. They are pretty frequent in my shop. It helps that I’m the only one who volunteered to be factory trained and specialize in them along side the 2020 bm.... I mean 2020 Supra
     
  11. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    2010 in the usa, but different in other parts of the globe
     
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  12. RealCCN

    RealCCN Junior Member

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    True. We learn by the book but more importantly by experience on actually dealing with the problems in real life. Without experience you can have all the books you want. Knowledge won’t help you fix cars. Do you think the engineers that design engines for a living work on their own cars? I’d be interested to know what the general opinion on this one is.

    also in page 133 of your owners manual is some information regarding capacity reduction of the traction battery.
     
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  13. RealCCN

    RealCCN Junior Member

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    I posted above my reasons for recommending the 5k oil changes.
     
  14. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    This is a teaching moment. What "long term" means to you is different from what it means to others. For many of the discussions on this forum, the duration has been represented by a time-span greater than 2 weeks of non-use... like when you leave for vacation and the car sits in the garage untouched. Your references were to the daily repetition, like doing that same thing each night for 2 weeks... which is not something that impacts longevity. So, it's one of those audience/context issues.

    The takeaway from this is allowing the battery to "cold soak" as long as possible prior to recharging. This is where your suggestion of taking advantage of the timer to schedule overnight charges is a great idea. Not only does that help slow aging, it also allows owners to get the most out of time-of-use discounts for their electricity.

    Welcome aboard. I have been doing this for 20 years now. I even got my Lean-6 Sigma certification. So, it is part of my career (software engineer) and hobby (green technology), both of which are very much continuous improvement efforts.
     
  15. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Is it your day to day experience and countless tear downs of 10k maintained Prius Prime engines vs 5k maintained Prius Prime engines? With all due respect, if it is not, then your observation and experience has very little relevance to what oil change interval should be applied to Prius Prime.
     
    #15 Salamander_King, Sep 2, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2020
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  16. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i have read the manual, but your advice is much more clear and succinct. toyota does not seem to want to set clear parameters. maybe for legal reasons?
     
  17. Northerner

    Northerner Member

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    As a fairly new Prime owner, I liked the video. It’s easier for me to remember to do things right if I know why I’m doing them.
     
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  18. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Regarding the oil change interval, for my Gen 3 there are two different intervals in the owner's manual for different driving conditions. Because I have short trips, the shorter interval is the owner's manual recommendation for my circumstances.
     
  19. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    Hint Prime is Gen 4.
     
  20. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Hint might be why I clarified I have a Gen 3.

    Has Gen 4 dropped the two categories of driving condition from the manual?

    Edit: nope, looks the same in the maintenance guide for 2020 Prime.

    prime.png
     
    #20 ChapmanF, Sep 2, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2020
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