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Can Enginer kit kill 12v Prius battery?

Discussion in 'Prius PHEV Plug-In Modifications' started by Hunter1, Feb 3, 2011.

  1. Hunter1

    Hunter1 Junior Member

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    hi I was one of the orginal Enginer kit users, kit died a few months after purchase, a few months ago installed 4 kwt version, last week added new BMS. Yesterday my car died about 5 minutes after starting it with all 5 idiot lights coming on and quickly losing power.

    On November 26 car slowly died on way home with every minute a new light coming on and had it flat bedded to Toyota dealer. On November 27th the Toyota dealer said it was my 12v battery, cost $350 to replace. Yesterday car died again with all 5 or so idiot lights coming on at once. I'm about to have it flat beded back to the same Toyota dealer. Previously, it was just the Hybrid light and the triangle that came on. I didn't tell the Toyota dealer about the Enginer kit cause I was pretty sure they'd blame any problems with the hybrid system on it. Now I'm wondering if others are having similar issues with 12v battery life? These 12v acessory batteries are very pricey and I'm hoping it's not related.

    Please post replies if you've had hybrid light issues since installing your Enginer kit or if you've had to replace your Prius 12v accessory battery. Thanks.
     
  2. cproaudio

    cproaudio Speedlock Overrider

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    Something else is draining your 12V battery. Is your car completely stock besides the Enginer kit? You can disconnect the 12V battery's positive post and hook up a 12V test light between the battery post and the 12V+ wire. If the test light lights up, there's a drain. You should do the test both with Enginer connected and disconnected. While the car is in ready mode, hook up a multimeter and test the voltage going into the battery. It should read at least 13 volts. If it reads lower than that, then your aux battery charging system is bad and could thousands to repair. Since you're in Pasadena, why don't you head out to the So Cal meet on the 26th.
     
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  3. caffeinekid

    caffeinekid Duct Tape Extraordinaire

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    The system only interacts with the vehicle in a potentially Z-draining capacity at the READY wire tap. If for some reason you tapped a 12V CONSTANT wire instead, the system could conceivably remain on while the car was off. If this were the case, the green light on the Enginer switch would remain on at all times (the switch was in the ON position) even when the car was off. I agree with cproaudio that the best way to move forward would be to run an amp meter between the positive battery terminal and cable. You can go on from there opening and closing doors and glove compartment, etc. and watch for current status changes.

    Also, for $350.00, you could get 1 of the superiorhttp://www.amazon.com/dp/product/B00075OSD8?tag=priuschatcom-20 batteries, the [ame="http://www.elearnaid.com/pakitforinop.html"]adaption kit[/ame] and a Scan Guage 2.
     
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  4. mrbigh

    mrbigh Prius Absolutum Dominium

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  5. Hunter1

    Hunter1 Junior Member

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    Thanks for the input, to answer your question cproaudio, I haven't done any other after market items other then the Enginer kit. Also, kit was installed by Jack Chen (owner of Enginer) so there shouldn't be an issue with install. I just got off the phone from the Toyota dealer, shop foreman and crew don't come in yet. Service tech thinks it's possible that it's the traction battery that's farting out and in turn may have killed the 12v battery. If it is, she thinks it's probably still coverd by toyota, since my car has under 120k on a 2004 Prius. If that's the case, it will be a free traction battery and install, still fearful that if they attempt that they're going to freak out when they see the Enginer kit and blame it on that, thereby voiding the warranty. If they feel it's the traction battery and want to replace it, should I have the Enginer kit removed prior so they don't see it or will they see it when they go to test the traction battery? I'm feeling really trapped now. So far, they haven't noticed the Enginer kit. I turned off only the Enginer switch on the dash, nothing on the Enginer box. Please advise. Thanks!

    PS Just went to research the warranty on traction batteries, and found this 2 year old post:

    In the US, the entire hybrid system (which includes the hybrid battery pack) is warrantied for 8 years/100,000 miles.

    If you are in a California-emission state, the hybrid battery pack in a 2004-2009 Prius is further covered under the CA emissions warranty for 10 years/150,000 miles. (But that is just the hybrid battery and certain emissions components, not the entire hybrid system...) Last I heard the upcoming 2010 Prius will have a longer warranty.

    That's a full warranty (not pro-rated). No cost to you for parts or labor.


    I now have yet another issue to add to the mix, I bought my car used in Arizona 1.5 years ago specifically so I could be one of the first to install the Enginer kit. So, would I be covered under California's law or not? Yikes, this gets complicated. Thanks again all of you for your help.
     
  6. caffeinekid

    caffeinekid Duct Tape Extraordinaire

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    I suppose its possible that the regulation may deal only with cars sold in the state as opposed to merely registered, but that is a good question. Someone here should know the answer. Anyway, I don't think the Enginer kit has anything to do with your issues. I would recommend redirecting your question to the general Gen II forum and leave the Enginer portion out of it.
     
  7. Hunter1

    Hunter1 Junior Member

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    I just researched and it looks like Arizona has adopted California emission standards, so that should solve it right? As for leaving Enginer out of the question, I would love to do that, I just have a murphy's law life and need to be prepared with info if the dealer goes there. These kits are still in their infancy and few dealers will just rubber stamp them. They're going to see the kit when they go to change the traction battery, and based on past exp, with similar issues, OEMs tend to blame the addon for the problem and say it voids their warranty.
     
  8. cproaudio

    cproaudio Speedlock Overrider

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    I suggest you remove the kit because in order for Toyota to remove the traction battery, the space occupied by Enginer has to be cleared for them to access the nuts and bolts holding down the HV battery. Dealers don't like to interfere other people's work. If they had to remove it, they will either not reintsall it or will install it incorrectly. Then, there's the possibility of them remove it incorrectly and damage the Enginer kit. Also with the kit out of the way, it is highly unlikely that the dealer will put the blame on what's not there.
     
  9. Hunter1

    Hunter1 Junior Member

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    latest and greatest info, just got off phone from dealer, they say the traction battery and 12v battery are fine. They say the code shows the problem is either a "Current Sensor or the transmission." In order to rule out the current sensor they have to access it by (get this) removing the traction battery! Needless to say Ca-Ching! So far I'm into them for $240 labor and the meter is still running. I decided I didn't even want to know the worse case senario if it's indeed the transmission. I haven't heard back from them about complaining about the kit so it's either a non-issue or still not discovered and they've been doing all the diagnostics through conventional ports. Thanks for the heads up on the possiblity of them adding to my troubles with the possiblity of them screwing up the Enginer kit. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. Really appreciate all the input you folks have and the endless knowledge.

    In order to remove the kit at this point, I'd have to sneak into the dealership with a few weight lifters. So, that's not very likely. Just wondering if I had one of those extended warranties they're always trying to push, if this all would have been covered. That will be my next question I ask them after I recover from hearing the sticker shock of what this will add up to.
     
  10. caffeinekid

    caffeinekid Duct Tape Extraordinaire

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    If they reset the code, does the car run fine? I have on two occasions-- both upon starting my drive cycle on EV mode on a cold morning-- had the engine kick on upon battery depletion, idle fast and then throw a code. But the car never "died". I just pulled over, turned the car itself off and back on and it ran fine from there. Later I pulled the battery cable to reset and haven't had a problem since. I suspect that it may have had something to do with a current reading that didn't jibe with the Prius' system, which 'could' be the result of the Enginer kit putting out more current than the Prius was expecting. Also, I am not sure that the traction battery has to be removed to get at the current sensor. If I am thinking correctly, access to the sensor requires about 1hr total R&R - in and out. I don't know about the transmission.
     
  11. Hunter1

    Hunter1 Junior Member

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    Waaaaaaaaaa! I just got a call from the dealer, they say it's not the Current Sensor, it is the transmission and it will cost get this....$5,693 to fix! Waaaaaaaaa! @&($#()*#$#!!! I now am totally screwed. I am now the owner of a beautiful blue Prius planter. An extended warranty would have covered it they said. I will call tomorrow to a local transimssion place to see if they can do it for a fraction of that cost. I am screwed beyond belief! Toyota dealer still says I owe them $240 for their labor on top of all this.
     
  12. mrbigh

    mrbigh Prius Absolutum Dominium

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    Start researching in used parts distributors, you will be amaze at the asking price for recycled parts against Toy. parts depot counter.
    But I will suggest you to have the part replaced by a experienced Prius/Toyota mechanic.
     
  13. caffeinekid

    caffeinekid Duct Tape Extraordinaire

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    What are your chances on getting a second opinion?
     
  14. Hunter1

    Hunter1 Junior Member

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    Not sure, at $240 for each opinion I'm going to be screwed either way no? Originally last year, when I started getting the hybrid light and triangle coming on, they did reset it (something like $165 diagostic fee though they couldn't tell what was wrong with it) and I was good for a few months. Then they said it was the 12v battery, and now they're saying it's the tranny. No way in heck am I paying 5700. Maybe I'll try contacting the regional service manager, but this all feels hopeless. I started a new thread on asking about replacing the Prius Tranny so I'm checking on there as well now.
     
  15. Floyd2

    Floyd2 progressio per sententia

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    Weird story. What made them initially think it had something to do with the 12V battery, did they explain that to you?

    Their second guess was the TB killed the auxiliary battery, that is surprising. They then suspected the current sensor for some reason. Which BTW is on top of the HV battery, not beneath it: so absolute no need to take it out, just lift the cover. And now they are ‘guessing’ it is the transmission, so suddenly something pure mechanical? Or do they mean a burned MG2 stator? If that was the case: why were you still able to drive the car between November 2010 and January 2011?

    It doesn’t make any sense at all: are you sure these guys are real mechanics? What was the DTC code, did it indicate HV leakage? If it was a P3009 they would have known it had nothing to do with the 12V battery.
    If I were you I would try to find out what the trouble code was and at least ask a second opinion at a real garage with experts on the Prius.

    P.S: Is Luscious Garage in SF Bay an option? If it would be the MG2 stator they will do it for less than half that price. It would have to be flat bedded another 400 miles but at least they're real experts. You could even ask them for an opinion first describing the symptoms in an email. Or maybe you know another good garage that is nearer to you.
     
  16. pbui

    pbui Member

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  17. mrbigh

    mrbigh Prius Absolutum Dominium

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    This is the beauty of the Hybrid vehicles, with out the proper training, knowledge, tooling and software nobody can troubleshoot this cars appropriately.
    I would take your vehicle to another "reputable Toyota Hybrid service center" and have a second opinion regardless of the diagnostic fee if you like and care your Prius.
     
  18. Hunter1

    Hunter1 Junior Member

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    Wow thanks for all the info, you guys are amazing. Luscious Garage in SF Bay is like 400 miles north of here. I wish that was an option. I'd drag it kicking and screaming up there if I could. I just called and the service department closed at 4 PM. They won't be open till Monday morning. This is a Toyota dealer so I would hope they are qualified and trained to work on a Prius. I find it hard to believe none of these issues are related as they claim. I hope by Monday morning I have a clearer idea on what to do. Yeah, not 100 percent faith they've got it right this time, but perhaps when I post the codes from them on Monday you can enlighten me further. I'm learning way more then I ever hoped to. I just want to drive me Prius and drive by gas stations. I wish it were that simple.

    Again, you guys rock! I really appreciate the help and moral support.
     
  19. Floyd2

    Floyd2 progressio per sententia

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    Glad we could help Hunter1. I agree with Mrbigh, it’s well worth the diagnostic fee for a second opinion and in the end it may save you a lot of money.
    I’m on the other side of the Atlantic but found that Lucious Garage is not that far from Pasedena and it has an excellent reputation. Unfortunately not an official dealer so it may void your warranty.

    If the MG2 stator really is the problem and you’re interested in some technical details take a look at this article they put up on their website, it’s the Gen.1 Prius but the principle is the same: Luscious Garage | Blog | Gen 1 Prius Transmission Repair, P3009, P3120, P3125 Replacing it with a salvaged stator might even further lower the cost.
    If you can find out what the trouble codes are post them here. I have a Gen2 workshop book so I should be able to look it up.
     
  20. Flying White Dutchman

    Flying White Dutchman Senior Member

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    get some other dealer to check if its really the transmission and get those DTC+s
    lucius is great get a tow truck up there haha