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Can I borrow your battery charger/balancer/reconditioner?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by JamesG123, Jun 3, 2020.

  1. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

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    And the "spam-vertisements" from the companies selling the "special" equipment to do that haven't changed much either.
    I hope you do realize that is all a bunch of self-serving marketing claims.
     
  2. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    Case closed.
     
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  3. JamesG123

    JamesG123 Junior Member

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    In theory I could get $700 for my old ones if I sell them for $25 each. Do people sell them on eBay one at a time or to some company that will buy all of them at once? I can see how this option can be attractive. I’m not sure if it’s worth it for my car though since it has some issues.

    Lol I guess I could technically be one of those sketchy rebuilders you’re talking about and sell a set for $1500 after doing some charging and discharging. Obviously wouldn’t do that if I didn’t think they were good.
     
  4. JamesG123

    JamesG123 Junior Member

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    I followed that link and the website doesn’t seem to sell hybrid battery bank chargers, but I hear what you are saying. As a newbie it’s hard to tell the truth from the lies and we can’t all be expected to be experts in batteries/charging/rejuvenation. We have to rely on the experience of others, so with that in mind I started another post with a poll to see how many people were successful when using these chargers. Hopefully eventually we’ll get enough votes to see some results. In the meantime I’m listening to you guys and trying my best to understand.
     
    #84 JamesG123, Jun 10, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2020
  5. JamesG123

    JamesG123 Junior Member

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    I definitely understand your perspective on this being a huge waste of time and money, so that’s why if I were to do it I would get one of these chargers for about $300 that can charge them all at the same time, that way I’m not spending too much of my time disassembling/tinkering etc. Once I install the charger I can charge/discharge easily, so it seems like it’s worth a shot. If my car were in better condition I would probably be more open to getting a new battery bank and sell my old one, but not only is the paint really crappy it has a transaxle noise that’s been consistent over the past few years, so it might not be the best investment.
     
    #85 JamesG123, Jun 10, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2020
  6. JamesG123

    JamesG123 Junior Member

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    But there are certain things to do work, right? Like in general when someone charges a 12V battery to 15.5V for an example it will clean the plates. I forgot the term for this, but my point is that acts of charging can affect the health of the battery. That’s just a simple example I could think of.
     
  7. JamesG123

    JamesG123 Junior Member

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    For those of you who think that battery balancers/rejuvenators are a good idea, what do you think of this one? Venice Hybrid Tech » HIGH SPEED CHARGER It’s $500 and $30 for shipping, but it can charge lots of different hybrid vehicles.
     
  8. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    Stay away from anything that is high-speed if balancing is your aim. I would only use a high-speed charger in the 40% - 80% SoC region. That is just my opinion.

    Why are you asking SS2 for advice? He is a one-trick-pony, His advice is it is a waste of time and money. It doesn't work because in his theoretical opinion it can't work, based on his extensive historical knowledge of Pb/A (lead/acid) technology. I think he was present when the first Pb/A was invented going by what he posts. But I could be wrong, which according to SS2 I am all the time.

    SS2 has never used a charger or performed any conditioning process on a Prius NiMH battery, and never will because of his beliefs.

    Many of the contributors to the Prius NiMH related thread have and do. They can attest to its effectiveness and usefulness.

    From whom would you really take advice?
     
    #88 dolj, Jun 11, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2020
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  9. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    As long as you believe that and that is all you have to say to back up your claims we cannot have a rational discussion on the subject. This is such an uninformed statement. The article posted by srellim234 demonstrates how Li-Ion (for example) is so different and more complex than Pb/A. Each chemistry and construction play a part in the difference between the different battery types. If Pb/A was the be-all and end-all there would not be a need for any other kind of battery.
    If only there were overwhelming evidence. We have, on one hand, a lone naysayer who refuses to provide any reference for his position and the rest who disagree, but were there to be even the slightest shred of a reference, they would be onboard and listening with open ears ready to change their position.
    Because you are just plain wrong and until you can provide specific NiMH related factual references (as this is ultimately a NiMH discussion), I not able to change my position. I am very willing to change my position, but do you really think, "because I said so," is a compelling argument in favor of your position? Why is that so hard for you to comprehend?

    Putting aside theoretical for a moment and let's look at the outcome of the practical. I have conducted several rounds of the conditioning process. Each time something has happened to the HV battery which makes the car behave better (more details in a previous post). I am just supposed to ignore that? I will let the reader decide.

    I think that we have come as far as we can. SS2 likes to jump on other people's threads and clutter them up with all sorts of his nonsense. It is now time for him to cease and desist. If he is really so keen to right the wrongs of the PriusChat world, he should really start his own thread, and stop continually hijacking other's threads.

    Over and out.
     
    #89 dolj, Jun 11, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2020
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  10. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    If you sold them for that price it brings the net price for the new cell kit to $800.
     
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  11. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    And so many discussions overlook the fact that one can (easily and quickly) sell the grid-charger setup when no longer needed (sell car, get a new battery, etc) and the difference in amounts comes down to a few dollars/month that can be considered a basic rental charge. BTDT
     
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  12. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

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    Look up the definition of "anecdotal" evidence.
    Then add that to the placebo affect.:)

    The problem with individual results is: There is no "control group" to compare the results with to get any actual PROOF that any improvement has been made and if so how much.
    And the operators expectations tends to inflate the results.
     
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  13. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

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    NO IT WON'T. That was the original "battery rejuvenation" myth.

    It is "sulfation" that is the problem with a wet cell lead acid battery and once the offending compound forms, it is not soluble in water or battery acid but it IS conductive. When enough of it forms at the bottom of the battery, it can short out the cells.
    Over-charging or pulses of high current doesn't actually remove any of the offending compound, it just tends to move it away from the working plates a TINY little bit so that it doesn't cause a major problem.
    But the same amount is still there.......and the problem will come back.

    Back when that type of battery was the only game in town, it was said that thumping on the bottom and sides of the battery case with a rubber hammer is likely to do as much good as a "de-sulfating" charger.
     
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  14. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

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    Simple evidence.
    If this was so valuable a tool, there would be HUNDREDS of companies making equipment, dozens of easily available "papers" describing the benefits.....and MILLIONS of people doing it every day.
    None of that exists.
    Simple evidence.
     
  15. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    Except most people use the grid charger every 6 months to refresh the pack.
     
  16. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

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    Sure. Good plan.
    Censor anybody who disagrees with YOU.
    By definition, they must be totally wrong.
     
  17. JamesG123

    JamesG123 Junior Member

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    Lol asking me to take sides?! I just appreciate you guys all taking the time to share your knowledge, whether correct or incorrect or somewhere in between. As a newb it helps to hear everyone’s opinions and eventually get an idea of how to proceed. For an example, I didn’t realize that getting new batteries, even though expensive at $1600 can be more affordable if selling my old ones. Unfortunately my car is too crappy for that kind of investment because of the paint and transaxle, so I’m going to try reconditioning my current batteries and replace bad ones as I go. I think that reconditioning/rejuvenating old batteries is possible because of all of the testimonials I’ve been reading in relation to Priuses and just in general from past research about batteries.

    I live off the grid in an RV and have solar panels charging Trojan batteries and I remember reading in Trojan’s own literature that all lead acid batteries at some point should be overcharged to clean the plates. It seems to be common knowledge that you can prolong battery life with sophisticated chargers, so the idea that we cannot prolong battery life/not have control over it seems counter to what the majority is saying.

    There are many types of batteries out there and I’m nowhere close to being an expert in any of them, but it seems like a good bet that Prius batteries can be reconditioned/rejuvenated with one of those expensive chargers or even a hobby charger set up. In fact, I don’t even think there should be a doubt. That’s the route I’m going to take. I know my battery bank needs balancing, it all makes sense. If the resistances are out of whack, then the batteries aren’t all charging and discharging at the same rate, which limits my amp-hours and perhaps max battery output, which limits my horsepower, which limits my gas mileage, which is what I’m seeing right now.

    Now I just need to find a charger to buy. I was hoping to just borrow one since I probably won’t have this car for a super long time, but since that’s probably not possible I need to decide whether to buy a cheap $300 one or an expensive $500 one that can work with multiple hybrids. Once again, buying some cheap hobby chargers and doing it that way would be way too time-consuming and inconvenient considering that the charging/balancing process should be repeated 1 to 2 times per year, so as far as I’m concerned buying one of these expensive chargers is actually less expensive than going to hobby charger route.

    Anyway, lately I’ve been thinking that I should just start looking for a universal power supply/charger that is infinitely adjustable in terms of voltage and amperage. You know, like the scientific kind? I can cut out the middle-man by not buying one of these “hybrid chargers“ and just get a very flexible power supply/charger that I can use for all kinds of things.

    I wish I could be more certain about how long I’ll keep this Prius, or if I’ll have another hybrid in the future, so that’s why it makes sense just to get the scientific power supply/charger. I need to start researching that now, so if you have any input about what to look for, please let me know.

    As always, it’s great to hear y’all’s opinions and to learn from you. And I can’t deny the entertainment value of you guys duking it out! I’m guessing it’s fun for you too or else you wouldn’t do it. I would love to see you guys design a battery powered space ship or something to see how that unfolds haha
     
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  18. JamesG123

    JamesG123 Junior Member

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    Damn, that’s pretty good! And a new battery bank with last about 10 years from what I understand.
     
  19. JamesG123

    JamesG123 Junior Member

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    Great thought! I think it boils down to resell value of the car. If the car is in great shape, looks great then making it last another 10 years with a new battery bank makes sense, but if the car is kind of crappy looking and has mechanical problems then it might not be worth making it last another 10 years because it might break before then…. In that case buying a battery charger and getting more life out of the battery and replacing battery modules as you go makes more sense.
     
  20. JamesG123

    JamesG123 Junior Member

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    Haha yeah anecdotal evidence, placebo affect and wishful thinking will figure into the results of the poll, but hopefully with enough people voting it will become more accurate over the years, especially with people’s detailed accounts. In other words, Hey it’s better than nothing!