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Can I change just the oil filter without losing too much oil?

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by UoD, Sep 22, 2014.

  1. UoD

    UoD Junior Member

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    The short version : I just put new oil in my car, but was not able to change the filter. So, I've got an old filter with whatever amount of old oil was in it (~.3-.4 quarts I am guessing). I put 3.5 quarts of new oil in the car, and I unfortunately had to drive it (so -- the old oil left in the filter has circulated in the car). If I were to change the filter, would I only lose whatever oil was in the filter? Or, would all 3.9Q of the oil puke out?



    The long version : I have changed the oil on my wife's Prius C 3 times myself with no issues. I went to do it on my 2011 Prius myself for the first time this weekend, and I ran into an issue that I discovered is a bit common. After draining the old oil, I went to change the filter and found that I couldn't get it off. I was using the same TOY640 filter wrench cap that people seem to commonly use, and it's the one I use on the Prius C with no issues. It didn't fit very well, and it seems to bind on the cap and not make good contact. Once I realized that there was no way this thing I going to budge, I tossed about 3.5Q of new oil into the car and drove it half a mile down the road to the Jiffy Lube. The manager there explained that he has had this issue before, and you need the filter wrench cap that has the little grooves to grab the wings on the side of the plastic filter cap. He used to have one, but lost it when they remodeled the shop. I just ordered one of those off of Amazon, and it will be here tomorrow. I'd like to go ahead and change the filter tomorrow... and then I plan on doing a full oil and filter change early (4-5k instead of the 8-9k I would have normally done it in). Can I change just the filter without losing too much of the new oil I have put in. And --- if it were you -- would you just go ahead and do a full oil/filter change now since it's really only $25-30 of lost oil? I'm just not sure how big of a deal it is to have .3-.4Q of old oil and having my new oil circulating through an old filter for about 50 miles of driving.
     
  2. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    I would just pretend I'd changed the filter, leave it for next time. Maybe accelerate the next change to 5000 miles? You'd likely only drain the usual amount that comes out with a filter removal, the bulk of the oil is below in the pan. But I'm not sure.

    Just FYI: Honda now spec's oil filter change at every second oil change. Now, trying to get a local Honda dealership to adhere to that is near impossible, but...

    When I was DIY'ing oil changes on a Honda with that schedule, what I would do is remove, drain and reinstall the filter.
     
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  3. Mike500

    Mike500 Senior Member

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    Shouldn't be a problem.

    The old filter traps and hold most of the particles from the OLD oil before you changes it.

    I wouldn't, however, go 10k before the NEXT oil change.
     
  4. Dave14Prius

    Dave14Prius Member

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    Why not just catch your oil in a clean container and put it back in?
     
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  5. UoD

    UoD Junior Member

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    Rgr that. I'll plan on doing an oil change early.

    I could -- I was more just wondering how much was going to puke out. If it was just a half quart or around that, I'd have no problem just putting new oil back in. I've got all of these containers with .1 quart left over from all of the other oil changes I've done.
     
  6. adamace1

    adamace1 Senior Member

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    I think not to much will come out, your going to have to see how much higher it sits than the oil drain plug.
     
  7. bball09124

    bball09124 New Member

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    What's the part number on that special tool you needed? I am going to change my oil for the first time this weekend and want to have everything I need.
     
  8. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Assuming you're meaning the special tool to take the oil filter housing off, you need a fourteen face socket with 64mm inside face-to-face dimension. You could likely buy it at the Toyota parts counter. FWIW, Honda's oil filters are exactly the same dimensions. There's also aftermarket options. Some look to be a bit to thin, some ok.

    The Toyota specific socket is somewhat deeper I believe with special tangs that fit the idiosyncratic flanges on the Prius filter housing. I don't see that this is needed to get the job done, and some people have found this actually didn't work right, was not fitting or something.

    I'm using a Honda socket, works fine. Very heavy gauge. I've had it for maybe 30 years, has a part no stamp, but way out of date. Here's the latest Honda part I think:


    Oil Filter Wrench - Bernardi Parts
     
  9. UoD

    UoD Junior Member

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    The Toyota parts department I checked around here looked at me like I was an idiot when I asked if they stocked the oil filter wrench tool. Apparently they don't sell tools, and I insulted them by even asking.


    Anyhow -- this is the tool I ended up purchasing :


    Fits absolutely perfectly, and grabs on to those notches on the side like a champ. Doesn't slip or bind at all like my Assenmacher TOY640. I highly recommend getting the proper filter wrench cap that I linked above. If you've got a stubborn filter housing that won't come off, this thing will do the job.

    Anyhow --- my filter housing was on so tight that I still couldn't initially get it off. I use the RhinoRamps to do my changes, so I don't have a ton of clearance under the car. I ended up having to take a 12inch breaker bar (that was the largest I could comfortably fit under there), and then I actually had to hold onto the front of the car with my hands as I use one of my feet to apply a constant, strong pressure to the breaker bar. After about 15-20 seconds, it finally started to slowly turn.

    Also -- about .3 quarts of oil was lost in the process. I still plan on doing a change in 5k miles or less since I had that dirty bit of oil that was originally left in the filter.
     
  10. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Dealership attitudes towards DIY can be all over the map, largely dependent on the management. Some will be really helpful, then some petty tyrant gets hired and parts becomes a dirty word.

    Sounds too like their service department is installing filters with impact wrenches. Now you're seeing their other side, lol.
     
  11. calirider

    calirider ECOmobile

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    No one answered the original question.

    How much oil comes out if you do a filter only change?
     
  12. Tony D

    Tony D Active Member

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    The capacity of the oil filter is very little, so very little oil and could easily be topped up.

    The main question is why bother? Just change it at the next oil change. Alot of people only change the filter every second oil change anyway.
     
  13. FuelMiser

    FuelMiser Senior Member

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    Actually, the OP answered it at the bottom of his post two above yours, 0.3 Qts, estimated.
     
  14. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    If you have a 2011 (3 yrs old?) and you're doing your own oil changes, then you probably have a half quart or so left over from the last change.
    That will be sufficient to do the job.

    FWIW I think that the filter element would be fine for another 5k, but also FWIW I'd change my filter anyway and call the roughly half quart of oil and hald hour's worth of time that it takes the cost of doing business.


    That's me.
    If the car isn't using oil, and the present oil volume is correct and somewhere near the appropriate viscosity then there's not really going to be a wrong way to do this, even if you defer the maintenance for another 5k.

    Good Luck!

    Toyota Prius 1.8L I4 Engine Oil Change & Filter Replacement Guide - 2010 To 2013 Model Years - Picture Illustrated Automotive Maintenance DIY Instructions
     
  15. GregP507

    GregP507 Senior Member

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    I don't see the reasoning behind changing the filter before the oil. I'd be more inclined to do it the other way; skip changing the filter, when I change the oil.

    While it feels good to get rid of a dirty filter, if it's still doing it's job, there's no need. I've never heard of a filter being plugged to the point of bypassing in an engine, but I've seen it happen in a hydraulic system, but it took nearly 15 years of almost daily use.

    Yeah, reminds me of an (unintentionally) hilarious auto-dealer commercial I heard a few years back, (I forget the name) but the commercial was basically a rant, scolding all the customers to respect them more, and stop being late for appointments, and to appreciate the discipline he was imposing on them. Talk about a petty tyrant.
     
    #15 GregP507, Jan 9, 2015
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  16. alekska

    alekska Active Member

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    - Aleks
     
  17. Yakoma

    Yakoma Active Member

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    LOL. Are they still in business?
     
  18. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    At our Honda dealer (a few years back), they had one service manager for a while, the guy guy was a cut above. He would come into the waiting area, explain what they'd found, outline possible courses to repair it, tell you the pros and cons. He was a diligent, dedicated guy. I can think of at least 3 interactions with him, each time he really came through.

    Talking with a work mate about a year back, I heard he didn't last that long, and ended up teaching mechanics at a community college, it was a good fit. He said something like the guy just wasn't cut out for dealership service department.
     
  19. Yakoma

    Yakoma Active Member

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    That dealer probably wanted his service manager to leave his ethics at the door. I've seen it several times.
     
  20. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    It's really too bad. I think if he'd stuck around it would ultimately have been VERY good for the business. You get more bees with honey. Maybe the ingrained attitudes drove him out, do not know.

    I remember one time, we were just back from vacation, driving in our Accord, and every time I touched the brakes, it sounded like the car had a broken back, really weird. Seemed to emanating from drivers/front corner. When we got home I took off that wheel and had a look: under close inspection I could a radial crack in the rotor.

    Phoned up the dealership, brought it in, described the problem and what I'd observed. About an hour later got a call: "the car's ready, there was no problem, it's good to go...". For a split second I was all relieved and happy, then my sensible side kicked in, and I said to check it again. Another 10 minutes or so and I got the "ah woops..." call.

    Anyway, hung up, and then started into a slow burn. I mean, I'm NOT a pro. And I managed to spot a cracked rotor. Grrrrh.

    Emailed that service manager, and 10 minutes later he called back. The conversation started something like: "I've got the disc on my desk, it's obviously got a crack, and there's no excuse for..."

    I liked the guy.
     
    #20 Mendel Leisk, Jan 9, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2015