Can I plug in at a NEMA 14 50 outlet?

Discussion in 'Prime Plug-in Charging' started by pbasch, Jun 19, 2019.

  1. pbasch

    pbasch Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2011
    21
    3
    0
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    I park once a week where they have one of these plugs. Is there an adapter that will permit me to use my stock 2018 Prius prime cable to charge with it? Thanks! IMG_20190618_184917.jpeg

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  2. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    15,988
    5,882
    54
    Location:
    South OC So Cal & Nashville, TN
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    You have to have a portable evse that charges on 240v. The factory L1 portable only delivers 120v. Presuming the neutral on that socket has a neutral, you could do a mod, to pull 120V off of it - but you have to know what you're doing - & no one's going to recommend or show you how to do that, because things could go horribly wrong. That said, there are plenty of aftermarket portable L2 EVSE's that you can pick up for a decent price.
    Alternatively, if you must use your L1 evse, you can buy an adapter like this;
    [​IMG]
    Right around $60 at Lowe's, Amazon Etc.
    .
     
    #2 hill, Jun 19, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2019
  3. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2009
    11,979
    6,234
    0
    Location:
    Greenwood MS USA
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Three
  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    85,425
    37,654
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    not with the oem evse
     
  5. pbasch

    pbasch Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2011
    21
    3
    0
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Thanks for the replies! And thanks for the Amazon link, JimboPalmer, even with the rather scary "Is pre made, which does not make it right for you use" caveat. Are you suggesting that it might (a) not charge at all and just be a waste of $34? or (b) make my car burst into flames and melt into a pile of Prius slag? or (c) cause hard-to-explain electrical damage to the car?
    EDIT: It occurs to me that @JimboPalmer might have meant a different risk: that (d) even if it all works fine, it would be unethical for me to do this. I'm not sure why, but it's possible Jimbo meant that.
    @JimboPalmer , could you clarify what you meant by your caveat? Thanks! On the surface, it seems like the perfect solution -- the plugs are the correct format, I mean.
     
    #5 pbasch, Jun 19, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2019
  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    85,425
    37,654
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    see the excellent thread by @Rob43 about converting your evse for cheap
     
    Arctic_White likes this.
  7. pbasch

    pbasch Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2011
    21
    3
    0
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Thanks for the @Rob43 link. I don't think I want to convert my charger. I want to get an adapter or a 2nd charger. 98% of the time, I have places to plug in that work perfectly well for my regular stock charger. I'm considering that adapter (14-50 to 2x regular plug) mentioned above, despite the scary caveat, or finding an aftermarket portable L2 EVSE to carry as a spare. The LAST thing I want to do is any soldering... that just doesn't end well for me :)
     
    Arctic_White likes this.
  8. jb in NE

    jb in NE Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2018
    2,235
    1,568
    0
    Location:
    Nebraska
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Premium
    Smart plan. The stock EVSE works pretty much everywhere, and if you modify it, it will not work pretty much everywhere. Adapter or second EVSE is the way to go.
     
    Arctic_White likes this.
  9. m8547

    m8547 Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2018
    593
    349
    0
    Location:
    Colorado
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    It's marginally unsafe to use. It would probably be fine 99.9% of the time, but it could be a fire hazard. Since that is a 40 or 50A circuit there is much more current available before the breaker trips. So if there is a fault the wiring in the adapter or EVSE or even the car could burn up. I'm not sure if electrical code covers this since there are not many requirements on devices that are plugged into receptacles. But here are some problems I can think of with it:

    • There is probably no GFCI on that outlet. You could add a standalone GFCI in combination with the adapter, but the adapter itself won't be protected since I doubt you'll find a NEMA 14-50 portable GFCI. You should have GFCI protection since where the EVSE plugs in won't be protected from water.
    • If there is a short circuit any wiring downstream of the receptacle could be overloaded since it is not designed to be used on a 40 or 50A circuit.
    In general it's always OK to plug a lower amperage device into a higher amperage outlet, but that assumes pretty much all outlets are 15 or 20A. And some devices have their own protection, for example most fans have a fuse built into the plug (for some reason). And a lot of power strips have a 15A circuit breaker built in.
     
    Arctic_White likes this.
  10. Rob43

    Rob43 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2014
    1,108
    771
    0
    Location:
    VA, BMW Race Car, BMW R1200R, BMW 330Ci, Ford F350
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    Remember: The stock OE Toyota EVSE is NOT modified in any way,

    again the stock OE Toyota EVSE is NOT modified in any way.



    Rob43
     
    Arctic_White and bisco like this.
  11. Rob43

    Rob43 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2014
    1,108
    771
    0
    Location:
    VA, BMW Race Car, BMW R1200R, BMW 330Ci, Ford F350
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    You are NOT altering your OE Toyota EVSE unit, it remains exactly the way Toyota sent it to you. If you used your OE Toyota EVSE as a Level 2 EVSE, you would need a 120v to 240v "Pigtail" which is a standalone cord.

    If you knew what I know about those China built L2 units that cost roughly ~$160 to ~$200 you wouldn't buy them. After testing several EVSE units, using your OE Toyota EVSE unit at either 120v or 240v is the way to go.


    Rob43
     
    #11 Rob43, Jun 19, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2019
    Arctic_White and bisco like this.
  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    85,425
    37,654
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    agree with rob^^^
     
    Rob43 likes this.
  13. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2009
    11,979
    6,234
    0
    Location:
    Greenwood MS USA
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Three
    I do not fear any damage, just no improvement in charge time.

    14-50 has two 240 hot wires a neutral wire and a ground wire.

    because that part has two hots, one 120v above neutral, and one 120 volts below neutral, it is 240 between them.

    [​IMG]
    To use the 14-50 to get a 2.5 hour charge time, we want both hots and ground in the 5-15 receptacle. (very not standard)
    But they have two 5-15 receptacles, I worry that each is one hot, neutral and ground, this is the 120 volt standard, but does not get you the 2.5 hour charge time, you would charge in 5.5 hours just like any 5-15. The $35 would be 'wasted'. (but not dangerous)

    If you own a Multimeter, you can measure the resistance between each blade of the 14-50 and the two 5-15s. You want the blades X and Y to go to the slots on the 5-15s. If you know an electrician, they can make it so. They can open the 14-50 plug and rewire. (this would be more dangerous and I am not recommending you attempt it yourself)

    www.amazon.com/Innova-3320-Auto-Ranging-Digital-Multimeter/dp/B000EVYGZA
     
    #13 JimboPalmer, Jun 19, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2019
    Arctic_White likes this.
  14. jb in NE

    jb in NE Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2018
    2,235
    1,568
    0
    Location:
    Nebraska
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Premium
    I understand that.
     
    Rob43 likes this.
  15. Rob43

    Rob43 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2014
    1,108
    771
    0
    Location:
    VA, BMW Race Car, BMW R1200R, BMW 330Ci, Ford F350
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    OP,

    I say buy into whatever you feel comfortable with, I'd recommend doing a little more research so that you know all the pertinent facts needed for your best decision.


    Rob43
     
    Arctic_White and bisco like this.
  16. m8547

    m8547 Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2018
    593
    349
    0
    Location:
    Colorado
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Can you share what's wrong with the cheap EVSEs? The duosida for example is supposedly UL listed, which I thought would indicate sufficient quality.
     
    hill and Arctic_White like this.
  17. Rob43

    Rob43 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2014
    1,108
    771
    0
    Location:
    VA, BMW Race Car, BMW R1200R, BMW 330Ci, Ford F350
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    Yes, but first let me clarify that I'm not an electrical engineer.

    There are 3 things that I noticed, 2 of the three are easily verified.

    1) The male charge handle on the China built units are very tight fitting when plugged into the Primes chassis, in some cases they are so tight people use methods like lubrication in an attempt to aid the fitment. The OE Toyota charge handle fits perfectly every time.

    2) The body of the China built EVSE units weigh roughly half as much as their Toyota EVSE counterpart, my first thought when holding the China built EVSE was that it was hollow inside. By comparison, the OE Toyota EVSE feels roughly twice as heavy.

    3) Internal workmanship, the OE Toyota EVSE looks like it was made by a robot, the soldering in the Toyota EVSE is perfect. The soldering in the China built unit that I examined did not look like a robot built it, it looked like it was hand soldered. The lack of consistency of this soldering was not good, there were several "cold joints", not a good thing.


    Rob43
     
    Arctic_White likes this.
  18. jb in NE

    jb in NE Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2018
    2,235
    1,568
    0
    Location:
    Nebraska
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Premium
    Have you stayed in a Holiday Inn Express recently? If so, that is close enough...
     
  19. Rob43

    Rob43 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2014
    1,108
    771
    0
    Location:
    VA, BMW Race Car, BMW R1200R, BMW 330Ci, Ford F350
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    You cracked me up,....I started laughing out loud !


    Rob43
     
    Arctic_White and jb in NE like this.
  20. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2009
    11,979
    6,234
    0
    Location:
    Greenwood MS USA
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Three
    My father was a mill Electrician for Weyerhaeuser from 1957 to 1983, summers.
    I was a low voltage Electrician from 1973 to 1980 off and on during school. (Smoke detectors)
    I was a network administrator from 1992 to 2016, as needed.
    I am retired and have not spent a Night in a Holiday Inn Express since 2009. (Ontario, OR - home of the tater tot)

    So while I have spent quite some time near 120/240, it is not my field. Get a local electrician, he knows the Code where you live.
     
    Arctic_White likes this.
Loading...