Can Model 3 compete mainstream?

Two comments come to mind:

1) It's too early to tell if the Model 3 is the Apple iPhone of cars, or the Apple Newton of cars. Just because something is new and pushes the envelope does not mean it will eventually succeed. Most new and innovative products fail. Google glasses anybody?

2) The reviewer has to review what's in front of him. He can't review vaporware that doesn't exist. How do we know voice commands will actually work? Perhaps somebody has a Scottish accent and the car can't figure it out? Of course, such a silly thing would never happen: Will Siri Ever Learn Scottish? | Gizmodo UK

I agree that ICE cars won't be dominant forever, they aren't on the decline yet as gas is way too cheap. Just look at F-150 production increases over the last several years: Ford F-series US car sales figures, they kind of track the price of gas, don't they?

And for what it's worth, I'm not interested in a Model 3. Not that I'm against BEV cars, but I am against using excessive technology where problems have a straightforward mechanical solution. For example, requiring the touch screen to open the glove box. Really? Are you kidding me?

 

Let's get @tpenny67 some crank up windows ...

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No, Tesla is not the iPhone of cars and never intended to be. Two completely different concepts

No, it is not vaporware. OTA improvements are being added on a monthly basis. Voice commands already work on a limited basis and more are being added on a monthly basis.

The electricity to power my model 3 is free through roof top PV. That beats the price of gas 365 days a year. The Tesla pickup will knock the stuffings out of Ford F truck sales. One day in the not to distant future, you will be driving a BEV pickup too. UPS is going all in on the Tesla delivery trucks with pre-orders. They say that ICE vehicles are not part of their masterplan for growth.

Yes, I bet you still have a landline with a rotary phone, and a wringer washing machine, a dish rack to dry dishes, and plow your fields with a mule, etc. but you get my point. And how is touching a manual button to open the glove box any easier than touching a button on a touch screen, or simply saying "open glove box"?

You don't understand the concept yet, but you will one day.

 

I *do* still have a car with crank windows and a stick shift, there is a dish rack in the kitchen for drying dishes (the dishwasher broke down a decade ago and we never got it fixed), and I harvest my own firewood for supplemental heating.

I've never had a manual glove box fail me. I can open it whether the car is on or off. Compare that to the Model 3 where I've read reports of an accident taking out the center screen, and the owner can't get at the registration in the glove box. That center screen is a single point of failure that can take out virtually the entire car.

 

I did have a glove box button fail me, several times, years ago. And I guess you haven't heard, but the Tesla glove box does open now in the event of an accident.

 

Tesla/Musk tend to mentions BMW as their target model, and the 3 is meant to compete with the 3-series. It has annual sales ranging from 60k to 140k(the low figures for the last few years likely reflect people choosing the SUV). BMW 3-Series Sales Figures | GCBC I would expect the Model 3 to at least match this. By the time pre-orders are gone, the full trim range will be available, and build quality should be improved.

Hey now, my Ranger had those. They're fine on smaller cars in which you reach across to the passenger side. Sharing the car with wife, I missed power mirrors more.

Ease isn't the issue. The issue is the introduction of more failure points that can result in making the glove box inaccessible.

I open the Camry trunk by the key fob or the release by the driver, but if those ever happened to stop working, there is still the key operated latch right on the trunk.

This is a complication and cost simply for the sake of aesthetics.

If the automation for the latch mechanism or touch screen fails, does the glove box pop open? Does it stay open, and need to be taped shut until fixed?

 

Heeeeyyy, how'd you get my family photo? LOL!

 

you call that a crank?
Now THAT'S a REAL crank



I still wash my cloths on a rock, too.

Ok maybe that's a stretch - but i do pour my own lead for ball & cap.

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Yeah, I'm being more of a luddite than usual today to make a point. I have found *remote* windows to be very handy, so the rear windows can be lowered from the front seat when the dog wants to stick her head out. Which is why I was always puzzled by the Dodge Neon that cut costs by putting power windows in the front seat and crank windows in the back.

My first full-size pickup didn't have power locks. I had to undo the seatbelt and scurry across the seat to unlock the passenger door.

 

So are the power windows, power door locks, power seats, SKS, navigation, etc. on my Prius.

Yes it pops open and you pull out the supplied power screw driver with the supplied self-tapping screws and screw the durn thing shut until you can take it to the service center which will be at least 500 miles away and they will charge you $10,000 to fix it. Caution, the supplied power screw driver works off the traction battery and if the traction battery is dead, and your cel phone is dead and you can't call roadside service and roadside service can't get to you because there is a blizzard in your area and you forgot to bring a jacket to ward off the cold and baby needs a new pair of shoes and you just lost your job and all of those things happen at the same time.................then you are screwed and will have to leave the glove box door open until you can get it fixed.

 

This is not the case.
The electronic lock on the glovebox allows remote unlocking of the glovebox. When being used as a car rental service, the glovebox remains locked unless the owner remotely unlocks it.
Now, I don’t know that the auto driving car service will ever see the light of day. However, this was one of the reasons for such a system.

 

@tpenny67 you make me laugh, you are a good sport. When @bisco gets his model 3, he will let you drive it and then you will want one too. Here on this Coast, I'm going to let @orenji drive mine and he will become a convert too!

 

Great point about the Tesla ride sharing network (maybe someday?) and the glovebox needing to lock. Also, in valet mode it locks. That's actually extremely handy IMO. Allows you to keep some valuables in the car.

 

Once you get by R and D electronics are cheap to make. New cars come with so many electronic modules today
That are cheap to make but expensive to replace and then they have to be programmed. I wouldn't own most European cars because of the complexity built into them.

 

HUH? How are Japanese cars different from European cars? My Prius is pretty sophisticated electronically.

 

I've only owned one European car, and that was a Saab, but my perusal of Jalopnik suggests that the complexity of the electronics and comparatively fewer number of European car dealerships makes the repairs more expensive.

Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.

 

Not all brands are equally capable of making complex electronics, from Mechanic’s Tale: VW, Heal Thyself - The Car Connection (admittedly 10+ years old now):

When doing electrical repairs on these cars you can never get good, accurate, simple diagrams. I used to think this was because they didn’t want non-VW people having them, but after finally getting a good look at some factory information I have concluded that they don’t provide diagrams because no one actually knows where the electricity goes once it leaves the battery.
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... and to make matters even worse: Mechanic’s Tale: VW Need More Healing - The Car Connection

The car limped back in last week with every warning light on the dash lit up like a Christmas tree. The customers had gone on vacation. When they returned, the back-seat floor of the VW had several inches of water in it, indicating some kind of body seal leak, as we had had heavy rains the week they were gone. Unfortunately, VW choose to locate the transmission control computer and the body modules under the carpet, under the seats, in wells perfect for collecting water.
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so to bring thing back to the original topic, I don't think VW has what it takes to become a mainstream auto manufacturer

 

Decades ago i had a '77 Econoline w/3 on the tree, no AC, & crank windows. No smog, as i converted to the simpler/cleaner Propane. Uber simple to diagnose. Contrasting against the better ½'s Tesla, it, for example, gave us a notice/display that its front 'raising' air suspension timed out. Called service to see if it needed to be flatbeded or if it's safe to drive. They over the air diagnosed exactly what parts went south & ordered parts, set our appointment & gave the ok to drive while parts were shipped. Sometimes complex
can be as simple as a 76 manual Van.

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That's a reason for having a power release, like for a trunk, that can lock out occupants. Not one for getting rid of the manual latch.

 

You're actually not making a good case for the Tesla, as it sounds complicated, prone to failure, and that only Tesla can diagnose and fix it. I'd actually rather have the '77 Econoline if it was anything like my '80 Chevette.

I'm not necessarily anti technology, as this is Prius Chat and I do own a Prius, which last I checked is a fair bit more complicated than a Chevette. Is a Prius as easy to fix as a Chevette? I don't know, nothing has actually broken on it yet other than a flat tire. My only experience with Toyota service was the free oil changes, and they under impressed me by forgetting to reset the service reminder even though they had ticked the box for it on the lengthy checklist that came with the service summary. I've never had a car this trouble free before.

If you want to sell me on a Tesla (or any car for that matter), tell me how infrequently it has problems, and how simple and cheap they are to fix when they do occur. I'll be impressed when an out of warranty Tesla can diagnose itself, offer to order the parts from Rock Auto, and give me an on-screen PDF of the repair procedure.