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Can Rollback Damage Front End

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-2022)' started by Prime Example, Aug 31, 2017.

  1. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    This dates back to pre-ABS, pre-stability-control days. When tire traction is mismatched, the better tires stop shorter, while the thinner tread tires skid farther. If the slipperier tires are in back, that means (absent a perfect undisturbed straight-line panic stop, which is not the norm) the rear tires will slide ahead of the front. I.e. the front and rear swap ends. For most drivers of typical skill, this is an uncontrollable condition. Plus, the car has less crash protection on the sides and rear than the front, so the shift away from nose-first orientation will increase the occupant risk even if the car collides at a bit slower speed.

    ABS and Stability Control reduce this tendency, but cannot perform actual magic. They cannot create traction out of thin air.

    For these reasons, I greatly prefer symmetric traction. Rotate the tires frequently enough to keep any front-rear traction mismatch small, then replace all four tires at the same time. This avoids the sub-optimal best-tires-on-front-or-rear debate completely.
     
    #21 fuzzy1, Sep 1, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2017
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  2. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Yeah I've never replaced just two, seems an ongoing dilemma.
     
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  3. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    And an easily avoided dilemma, merely by having a policy of keeping tires adequately rotated, and replacing tires in sets of four, not two.

    My money supply is not so tight that I need to seriously consider taking the risk of replacing in just twos.
     
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  4. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Also, DIY plug repair keeps you in the here-and-now, away from the enticing aroma of new tires.
     
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  5. Prime Example

    Prime Example Junior Member

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    You are so right about the place of manufacture. I thought maybe the issue was the pressure so I stopped at a gas station. When I was taking off the stem caps I noticed that the rear (original tires) were manufactured in Japan. When I looked at the front - Mexico! So I looked more carefully; Wth - the tires were replace with 91H made in Mexico instead of the 89S that were the OEM made in Japan. Plus, they were inflated to 39 psi on the front and rear while the door sticker indicates 36 front and 35 rear. I deflated the tires to the right pressure and the car seemed to be better, but not great. Then, I phoned the tire store and advised them they had replaced the tires with the same size tire but with a higher speed rating version. They had absolutely NO PROBLEM fixing the error. They ordered the 89S Thursday eve and installed them on Friday late morning. Voila! Car rides sweeeeeet again - 195/65R 15 89S - Japan. I never would have realized the higher speed rating tire and over inflation could effect the ride so much - but it did. And, kudos to the tire dealer who fixed the issue without hesitation or extra charge even though I had driven over 300 miles on the wrong tires. They even checked the front end alignment and other issues and found no problems caused by the tow.

    It was in neutral when hoisted. Put parking brake on when up on bed and tightened down. But, like an idiot, when I backed the car off the bed, I forgot to take off the parking brake. No wonder it was so tough backing it down. But the tire store did take it off when they moved the car into the bay.
     
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  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    what do you think caused all the creaking and groaning?
     
  7. Prime Example

    Prime Example Junior Member

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    I think it was me creaking and groaning, besides swearing. (And for many of those here driving Prii, you know exactly what I mean....those knees creak and I groan!)
     
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  8. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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  9. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Bridgestone has created a mess, with these three iterations of a tire having one name. Sounds like a spaghetti western. :whistle:
     
  10. PT Guy

    PT Guy Senior Member

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    The higher speed rating indicates a different construction inside the tire. I'll always try to pick a tire with a cap ply (usually one nylon ply in the tread) that greatly helps stabilize the tire at high speed. Usually an H speed rated tire is needed for this.
    "To get a tire to pass an H speed rating almost requires the tire to have an overlay - commonly called a "cap ply" and nylon is a commonly used material. This overlay restricts the growth of the tire due to centrifugal forces as well as the movement caused by the standing wave. Not only does this result in reduced stresses in the tire, it also reduces heat generation.

    "Standing waves are the result of an individual tread segment entering the footprint and being deflected, and as that segment leaves the footprint, it overshoots the original position, then rebounds back and forth until the natural damping of rubber reduces the motion to almost zero. The amount the tread overshoots the starting point is small at low speeds, but as the speed increases, the standing wave grows not only in magnitude, but also how far around the tire it goes."
    Barry's Tire Tech

    Some people economize on tires by not rotating, then buy two at a time when a pair wears out. (Not me.) Sometimes a tire is badly damaged, must be discarded, and at least two are needed for good operation.