Featured Can Toyota Save the Prius

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by mikefocke, Dec 16, 2018.

  1. telmo744

    telmo744 HSD fanatic

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    Prius might be struggling in sales, but CNBC should also refer the increase in hybrid sales worldwide, and giving some room to the pros of the vehicle itself.
     
  2. royrose

    royrose Senior Member

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    Agree 100%. Toyota as a whole gets by on their reputation for reliability. I have a list (in my head) of stupid Toyota design and marketing decisions.

    The gen 4 attempt at being more stylish (ugly to many and less practical) is one of them. I think they realize that now which gives me hope that the Gen 5 will be better but they may never regain Prius status as an iconic vehicle. Maybe they will move along the development of the Gen 5 and bring it out after 5 years instead of the usual 6.
     
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  3. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    I still think the smartest thing Toyota ever did with hybrid technology was to offer it in their other cars, without all the glam-tech and fake future rocket styling and strict aero of the classic prius.
     
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  4. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Dealerships - that answer the question as to WHY Toyota won't build an EV - and believe that the answer is;
    "because it won sell" ~ is conclusory. Their answer necessarily begs the question - WHY do dealers think it won't sell. Are dealers concluding Toyota manufacturers will make it ugly? Short range? Too small? Slow charging? Unreliable? Or lacking a massive recharge infrastructure (which Tesla already invited other manufacturers to participate in). Are there any other possible reasons the dealerships would presume the way they do? WHY they believe what they believe might be a more germain question.
    .
     
    #24 hill, Dec 17, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2018
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  5. Prashanta

    Prashanta Active Member

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    Well, it was a bridge that 95% of new vehicles still have not crossed. Simply hybridizing existing vehicles and discouraging sales of mammoths like the Tahoe could half our carbon footprint.
     
  6. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    I'd say gen 3 was a bit edgier than second. I recall when 4th gen came out, taking a fresh look at 2nd's. 2nd looks the most benign/amiable, 3rd gen looked like it had "grown up" a bit, got a little slicker. But the changes felt evolutionary, and the styling still looked logical.

    I was waiting for 4th gen, really excited, checkbook at the ready, lol. And then...
     
    #26 Mendel Leisk, Dec 17, 2018
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  7. Ashlem

    Ashlem Senior Member

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    If you're talking about the plug-in tax credit, that's partly true if you leased it. They gave you some of the money, but not all of it, while other automakers used it to lop $7500 off the car's lease, which translated to lower monthly payments for lessees.

    If you buy it though, you get to claim the full credit, though how much you can get depends on how much money you owed Uncle Sam. If you didn't owe at least $7500 Federal the year you bought that new plug-in, then you lose out on some of it since it's only usable for one year.

    The mpg on the Volt isn't as good as a Prius, but it still beats most other gas cars out there. True, the Prius would ultimately use less gas on a 600 mile road trip, which for some reason is what everyone uses to compare them with as if everyone has long commutes.

    But then they ignore the longer EV range the Volt has, which meant if your daily commute was 50 miles or less, and you plugged it in daily, you would very likely use less gas than if you were driving a Prius Prime.

    Some may then argue "then why not just buy a Leaf or Bolt?" Because the charging infrastructure outside of Tesla's Supercharger network is still pretty sparse in many places, meaning you'd need a 2nd gas car if you wanted to do that road trip, or send a lot of time planning around chargers, hope that they work or aren't "ICE'd" by a gas car parked in that spot, and spend extra time waiting for it to charge.

    It also means more insurance, more maintenance, and a 2nd spot to park it when not being used. With a Volt, you can just take that same long trip and use some gas.

    As for the "It's a Chevy" angle, I can't really argue with you there. Some people are still angry at GM to this day because of what happened to the EV1, and refuse to touch anything with a GM badge on it (Cadillac, Buick, Chevrolet, GMC), even if they've been trying to make up for that with the Volt, Bolt, and future plug-in offerings. The hostile/lax attitude most dealerships and salespeople had towards GM's plug-ins, combined with their lack of advertising them, also hurt potential sales.

    Back to the topic, hybrids are having a tough time because aside from the "low" gas prices, they don't really offer much more to attract people to them. Most sit fairly low to the ground, while people increasingly want larger vehicles so they can see more of the road ahead, and hopefully above all those other trucks/SUV's on the road. And while the Prius has a useful liftback utility, some people want their vehicle to have a bit more power, either to race other people at a stoplight grand prix, or just to merge onto a busy freeway, and are willing to sacrifice a bit of mpg if it means not being ran over/off the road by irate drivers due to their slow acceleration.

    The higher cost of a Prius also turns some people off. Though this is annoying when they have no qualms about spending $30-45k on a SUV/truck, or a luxury car.

    I know this is anecdotal, but I've seen several coworkers who bought used luxury cars, usually Lexus or Acura, and later complained to me about the high cost of gas, especially premium gas. Those same people also completely ignored my advice to look at hybrids or plug-ins even though they have a garage and don't live too far, where a used Leaf would have saved them thousands of dollars a year in gas and maintenance costs.

    Hybrids still have their uses. But they are being seen as less and less relevant in the age of plug-in vehicles, not to mention the "low" gas prices causing people to go out to buy trucks and SUV's because the commercials tell them to go buy them.

    It would be interesting to see Toyota release a sport version of the Prius, much like how some automakers offer a turbo version of their other cars like the Honda Civic SI, VW Golf GTI, or Ford Focus RS.[/QUOTE]
     
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  8. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    actually much simpler. customers keep coming in asking for the largest land barge they make, with the lowest mpg's.
    it's not rocket science. why would you want anything else on the lot/books? they already hate prius/prime.
     
  9. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    the push to huge land barges - via cheap gas is being brought to you by a concerted effort to dump clean air regulations that date back at least 4 decades. After all, it's like the oily legislative lobby pushers say, "we don't need emission & mileage regulations because we're swimming in oily surpluse.
    The Oil Industry’s Covert Campaign to Rewrite American Car Emissions Rules - The New York Times
    Even the auto industry lobby finds tossing out existing fuel standards to be extreme. But the oily Lobby? not so much.
    .
     
    #29 hill, Dec 17, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2018
  10. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    With the design dimensions they use in today's parking lots, and just for nimble maneuverability, maybe there's a tipping point? I've driven a few of our kid's "boats", can't wait to get back to our "mid-size" Prius.


    I've read too, that CUV/SUV regulations are laxer, both for emissions and crash protection, so they can build them cheaper, and customers gobbling them up, usually buying on time. And complain at the pump.
     
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  11. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    maybe, but idk when. i have seen single drivers struggling to maneuver these things for years and it hasn't changed yet.
    $6. gas? not even sure if that's enough
     
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  12. farmecologist

    farmecologist Senior Member

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    The thing that is worth saving is the Hybrid Synergy Drive...NOT necessarily any of the model monikers that have it.
     
  13. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    $6 gas? No. Once the Koch brothers have their way, it will only cost $20 to fill your new ride.
    [​IMG]
    It's like Richard Dreyfuss said in Jaws, "we're going to need a bigger boat" .
    You are going to need a bigger garage, or a longer driveway.
    .
     
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  14. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    not a problem for many americans.

    oh sure, they'll be the usual evening news with the poor minority mother in her '86 bronco, complaining about the price hike, but that's about it
     
  15. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    I like that one.

    Just editorial, it was Roy Scheider, who said that, having just got the first good glimpse of you know who.
     
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  16. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    I don't think the Hybrid Bridge has been crossed.

    As long as the majority of vehicles operated and owned are still pure ICE vehicles, and as long as the overwhelming infrastructure for "refueling" your vehicle are gas stations, then the bridge hasn't been crossed and certainly shouldn't be considered crossed.

    I still think there is a great place, for a highly efficient vehicle that you DON'T have to plug in, that you can operate as an ICE vehicle.

    The era of the Hybrid won't live forever. I'd suspect advances in battery and charging technology, might someday tip the scales. Or maybe some advancement we haven't even seen yet.

    But for now? If you want a low emissions vehicle, that get's phenomenal gas mileage, and can provide you with an ownership experience that doesn't include range anxiety, the Hybrid is still your best choice.

    Bridge technology? Yes.
    Bridge crossed? IMO No.
     
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  17. 3PriusMike

    3PriusMike Prius owner since 2000, Tesla M3 2018

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    I don't know why anyone wants this? It is to hard to plug in your car at home in your garage?
    Putting it anyplace else seems not practical.
    In addition to the extra cost you get to loose some of the power.
    While you are selling to the people who are trying to be efficient.

    Mike
     
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  18. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    unfortunately, less and less people are willing to buy a bridge...

    unless that changes, toyota will look long and hard at their commitment
     
  19. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    it's in front of the cupholders
     
  20. Ajourney101

    Ajourney101 Member

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    Because it's an ugly car. I could not buy an ugly a.s.s. car no matter how well it saved $ at the pump. Not everyone has an angry origami personality. I can't stand to look of the thing! They ruined their success when they decided to destroy the entire look! I mean, damn, who approved that design?! Yuck! ...Cringe... sorry to say, I am done with Prius just like I am done with Samsung with their retarded a.s.s. curved screen.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
    #40 Ajourney101, Dec 18, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2018
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