CAN-View Software Updates

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Technical Discussion' started by efusco, Feb 9, 2006.

  1. hdrygas

    hdrygas New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ScottY @ Sep 25 2006, 10:18 AM) [snapback]324736[/snapback]</div>
    I thought it was trip time on the Trip page. That is CAN View I think because it starts timing as soon as it comes on.
     
  2. ScottY

    ScottY New Member

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    More question...
    The internal resistance of HV battery reading, is that a CAN message? Anybody know how it's measured?

    When I start up the car, that reading is almost always 0.3 Ohm. As I drive, the internal resistance will drop to 0.2x ohm and fluctuates between 0.3 and 0.2x ohms as temperature reaches steady state. Before seeing this, I thought the short term internal resistance is proportional to the temperature of the battery. But that's not the case. I thought this is interesting enough to share.
     
  3. eflier

    eflier Silver Business Sponsor

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ScottY @ Oct 3 2006, 08:10 AM) [snapback]327296[/snapback]</div>
    Hi Scott, this measurement was intended mainly for the plug-in conversion guys to give some more insight as it tries to measure the internal resistance of whatever battery is connected, not just the stock Panasonic battery. There is no CAN message that can do this.
    Ideally, you would measure battery internal resistance by taking 2 measurements at different current levels. Easy on the bench, way more difficult in the vehicle. Draw one level of current, long enough to get a stable reading of both voltage and current, then immediately draw a different level of current and repeat the measurement. R then = (voltage difference/current difference)

    Biggest problem is that the battery current is almost never stable, it fluctuates wildy all over the place. So the best I can do is make an opportunistic measurement: if I see V and I stable for a few hundred mS, I grab those numbers and then hopefully wait to see another, different, set that is also stable a few seconds later. I can't wait more than a few seconds because under heavy load, the battery voltage will drop due to SOC shift and not just because of internal resistance drop. For example, if you do a flat-on-the-floor acceleration from a standstill, you will draw a nearly steady 125amps for the 11 seconds or so it takes to get to 60mph. Thats ~0.4AH or about 10% of the entire capacity. A voltage drop due to 10% SOC drop introduces a significant error to internal resistance, So any measurement during this type of battery use produces an invalid resistance measurement.

    This 'opportunistic' measurement approach works much of the time, occasionally it gives weird results, but the intent was to show any permanent change, which might point to a potential problem, which it does.
    There are some CAN packets that show internal resistance of a few of the 7.2v packs, but these have no bearing on any extra battery added.

    You might be interested in this test plot I did on the bench under controlled conditions, in which I discharged a 2005 Prius pack under a steady 10A load for ~30 minutes, taking an addiitonal pulsed load of 20A at fixed intervals to allow an internal resistance measurement to be made. The battery was at 20C at the start and 35C at the end. It looks more like the internal resistance is far more influenced by SOC than by temperature.

    PS I did attach this plot but it doesn't show up during Post pre-view....

    Here's why the attached image didn't attach...

    "The requested file upload failed because suitable permissions have not been enabled on the 'uploads' directory. Please contact the board administrator and inform them of this error."
     
  4. mrbigh

    mrbigh Prius Absolutum Dominium

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eflier @ Oct 4 2006, 02:01 PM) [snapback]327966[/snapback]</div>
    Norn, can you post this chart in your web site for everybodys reach? PriusChat has to many problematic isues latelly with hosting data of any kind + hacking developments....
    Thanks
     
  5. hdrygas

    hdrygas New Member

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    Norm may be too shy to post this but it is on his web page and it is good, it is very good!! Go Norm!!

    The new V4 preliminary specifications:
    Includes all software features of both relay and none-relay previous versions, with much more memory for future software downloads. Those downloads will be to a single processor.

    Only connection to vehicle is single OBD2 plug.

    Separate 7" LCD touch-screen powered from CAN-view, total standby current is less than 1mA.

    Retains collected data through power off and on automatically.

    Works on all 2004,5,6,7 Prius's. Potential to work on other hybrids too.

    Screen has 2 composite NTSC video inputs as well as the VGA input from CAN-view.

    Except for separate LCD (VM7000) that you buy from any of several Internet retailers, V4 CAN-view will cost less than V3.

    This is really good news! We now wait and give Norm support and good vibes. BTW I might well have a V2 for sale if some one has a 04-05.
     
  6. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    Norm,
    I have a minor request for the next CAN-View update....
    On the throttle graph, once I figured out what it was doing, you have the bars change colors...green/yellow/red. But the battery SOC is always red. With the numbers so small they can be tough to see in the daylight against the blue background.

    I was hoping that perhaps you could make the SOC digits change colors depending upon the SOC of the battery. IOW, Below 46% it would be red, 46%-65% Black (or blue at night)--if that won't work then just make it yellow and we'll adapt, and >65% Green. That would simulate the Energy screen colors fairly well and make a determination of the SOC a bit easier.
     
  7. mrbigh

    mrbigh Prius Absolutum Dominium

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Oct 23 2006, 03:40 PM) [snapback]336931[/snapback]</div>
    I pledge to the CANView update..... ;)
     
  8. eflier

    eflier Silver Business Sponsor

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Oct 23 2006, 12:40 PM) [snapback]336931[/snapback]</div>


    I hear and obey...(sometimes)
    I've been busy getting my V4 prototype working and also working with a very patient TomDeimos to resolve CAN-views's under-reporting of fuel consumption during things like cold start (and I believe we are close to a solution) so when that solution is posted (this week hopefully) I will add in your red/yellow/green SOC # on the throttle bar at the same time.
     
  9. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eflier @ Oct 24 2006, 09:25 PM) [snapback]337753[/snapback]</div>
    Thanks Norm, your responsiveness to these issues is, as always, greatly appreciated. I look forward to the fuel consumption solution too, though it isn't something I pay a lot of attention to most of the time...
     
  10. hdrygas

    hdrygas New Member

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    Everyone should see this: 06> owners you are in !!!
    go here: http://www.hybridinterfaces.ca/products.html

    Starting from November 2006 there will be 2 fundamentally different CAN-views available:

    The V3 is the original designed for the 2004-2005 Prius with the analog MFD.

    The V4 is designed for the 2006-2007 Prius which has a digital MFD and so the V4 uses a separate 7" touch screen LCD (that you can buy from a number of Internet retailers). This also makes it flexible enough to adapt in future to other makes and models. (Given the demand)

    Neither model will work with the 2001-2002 Prius (Classic) because it does not have a CAN-bus.

    V3 works on all package versions of the 2003-2005 Prius.

    V3 is currently shipping, V4 will begin shipping mid-November.

    Each version comes in an aluminum case and is complete with all necessary custom cables. No wires are cut during installation. The V3 requires 1 (removable) wire-tap for +12v

    For more detailed information on each of the types, click on either image below. When you are ready to order, email for a shipping quote. (Rough guide: Airmail within North America ~US$14; outside North America, ~US#30)
     
  11. tomdeimos

    tomdeimos New Member

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    And for current can view owners see this:

    "Oct 25th update:

    1) Fuel flow and MPG now work from cold start

    2) 'i' icon for injector on-time added to graph options

    3) SOC% on throttle bar changes color with SOC

    4) Status block now shows 'TRY EV', 'EV MODE', 'EV DENY', 'ICE run', 'ICEspin', 'B-brake', 'WOTmode' and 'Stealth' "
     
  12. Manksgloob

    Manksgloob Member

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    Awesome, V4.

    I just wish it could have interfaced with the MFD instead of an external screen.
     
  13. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tomdeimos @ Oct 25 2006, 01:37 PM) [snapback]338123[/snapback]</div>
    It's like Christmas every time there's an update!!
    What is WOT mode though? And how is the "TRY EV" status determined?
    Will definately do this update tomorrow.
     
  14. tomdeimos

    tomdeimos New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Oct 25 2006, 03:32 PM) [snapback]338173[/snapback]</div>
    TRY EV happens when you press the EV button. It will be followed by EV DENY or EV MODE I think.

    WOT seems to mean: "Wide Open Throttle" but happens when I tried it out at lower throttle levels too. It seems to be throttle position as well as rate dependent, kind of like the brakes. Hobbit's web site has some detaled info on part of this in something about "throttle control mysteries".

    http://www.techno-fandom.org/~hobbit/cars/sweet/

    If it happens you are in high power low economy mode of some kind and the really neat thing is this mode has lots of hysteresis, so you need this new indicator to help make sure you get out of the mode when done accelerating! Think of driving with a booster rocket to use when needed, and avoid otherwise.

    By the way with the new fuel flow you all with block heaters should really be able to see the difference they make now in the mpg graphs!

    I probably should mention the "Ice Spin" means engiine turning but no fuel flow. That one is nice if you don't have the right graph up.
     
  15. Bob Addison

    Bob Addison New Member

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    The capabilities sound great. I would be interested in getting one.

    I have a question for hdrygas or Norm regarding the separate V4 monitor. Is this intended to be attached to the dashboard? If so how do you prevent blocking the driver's view of the road. If not, where do you mount it so that the driver can see it?
     
  16. mrbigh

    mrbigh Prius Absolutum Dominium

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(RapidRobert @ Oct 25 2006, 07:40 PM) [snapback]338328[/snapback]</div>
    Right there, where you like it................... :blink:
     
  17. eflier

    eflier Silver Business Sponsor

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    Just an update to say I've posted new codes to download for all V1-V3, both relay and none-relay versions, which add a couple of features. The main one is that the under reporting of fuel consumption during start up is now history. Due to the perseverance of TomDeimos, we now have fuelflow/MPG numbers that seem to match the Prius MFD properly.

    During the course of investigating this, the odd mode I've labelled WOTmode (because it occurs most easily on WideOpenThrottle) appeared so I added it to the status display. Someone brighter will have to decide what it is, although it does seem to engage when you do things rapidly, maybe the Prius goes into a higher state of readiness for rapid response? It also (as Hobbitt recorded) takes its own sweet time exiting this mode, unless you are equally quick lifting your foot off. Not clear what impact it has on overall fuel consumption; it all happens so fast. But at least you can see it.

    Also added compression-braking when in B-mode and ICE spin when the ICE is being spun but not consuming fuel.

    Serial dump option can now be saved so you don't have to go thru set-up each time if you have a data-logger permanently connected.

    The relay guys get a button that can instantly shut off all relays. (panic mode???)

    Graph option added to both code sets is injector on-times, but I've scaled it to 12mS max as thats the highest figure I can see published anywhere. The actual CAN packet is a number that goes to 1400 but I have a hard time believing thats 14mS. Anybody got solid numbers, please let me know!
     
  18. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    Norm,
    The video code listed (non PHEV) is an Aug216 date. In my archives I show an Aug236 video code for my previous download. Yet the info says I need to download both the CAN and Video codes. I don't mind, but that seems to be wanting to take me back to a version that predates the one I already have loaded.... can you clarify that?
     
  19. McShemp

    McShemp New Member

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    Okay, who has a data logger set up with CAN-view?

    Norm pointed me to a site where a laptop was being used with CAN-view, and there's lots of helpful info there. It requires starting up a laptop and getting some software running to collect data via the CAN-view serial port. Then you drive. Finally, the software has to be shut down when you stop the car. Not too difficult, just a process to remember to follow.

    Does anyone have a setup that requires a simpler process? Something like, just drive the car and download the data every week? A mini PC setup that auto starts with the car?
     
  20. Bob Addison

    Bob Addison New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mrbigh @ Oct 25 2006, 05:43 PM) [snapback]338347[/snapback]</div>
    OK what am I missing. I don't understand where the monitor can be conveniently mounted.
     
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