Capital Punishment?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Mar 9 2007, 06:23 AM) [snapback]402724[/snapback]</div>

Again, please read what I said. "We are one of the few western countries who still use capital punishment."

You take a portion of what I said and insert Iraq as if that is a western country.

Argh, when will you ever take time to properly understand what is being said? You do this so very often.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(desynch @ Mar 9 2007, 12:56 PM) [snapback]402877[/snapback]</div>

I forget your on an Island......

Theres nothing racist about the statistics....

Google: Miami, Tampa, Jacksonville, Daytona ect. crimes commited by age & race...

We have more blacks in our jails than whites, oh I guess we must be racists be cause we have more blacks than whites in the jail system.. And thats not counting genders...

Theres a list with a break down of race/gender/age/crime/ , that I can not find..... it breaks it down nicely to %'s
I think its from the FBI.... I'll continue to look for it and post it here when I find it .

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Walker1 @ Mar 8 2007, 02:24 PM) [snapback]402445[/snapback]</div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Oxo @ Mar 9 2007, 06:13 AM) [snapback]402746[/snapback]</div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Delta Flyer @ Mar 9 2007, 06:47 AM) [snapback]402756[/snapback]</div>

I agree with Walker on this point: Whether talking about an arbitrary book, such as the Bible, or talking about the law, absolutism is generally a mistake. The law is whatever a pack of lawmakers (usually criminals themselves) have written down, and the Bible is seriously flawed, both historically and morally. People have to look to their conscience. Note that everything the Nazis did was legal, by their law, at the time. It was illegal to hide Jews. In the U.S. it was illegal to help runaway slaves. The law is very often worse than the criminals.

Civil disobedience is founded on the conviction that there is sometimes a moral imperative to break the law. The people who hid Anne Frank and her family; the Quakers and others who helped slaves escape; the Freedom Riders; all these were the very best of the best of their respective societies, and all broke the law.

If everyone obeyed the law unquestioningly, we would have total oppression and misery. This is not to say that people should ignore the law and do whatever they like. But people do need to follow their heart.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daronspicher @ Mar 9 2007, 11:50 AM) [snapback]402823[/snapback]</div>

You just contradicted yourself. You say "0 inncents executed is acceptable to me" yet you want it to be legal to fry people. As long as people can be fried with our current judicial system, innocent people will be (and have been) fried.

Apparently you don't mind if the next innocent person to be framed, tried, and fried is your son, so maybe you can just shorten the whole process and shoot him yourself. Hey, they state was going to do it anyway, why not save them the time and money?

You have a horrible position on this issue.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wildkow @ Mar 9 2007, 11:32 AM) [snapback]402810[/snapback]</div>

It was a question - not a bashing. The question asked why so many Christians support capital punishment.

Of course the answer must be that they are not true Christians but you avoid an answer by denigrating the questioner. There have been numerous atrocities by Christian and other religious fanatics but can anyone think of an atrocity that has been done in the cause of atheism?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Mar 9 2007, 12:22 PM) [snapback]402893[/snapback]</div>

Why do you have to twist what everyone says. AGAIN, all I said was to point out what I said. You did not read my post correctly and proceeded to argue something I never said. Can you not understand this?

Stop twisting what people say. Stop making an argument over what was never said. OK? Simple enough?

Thank you.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Mar 9 2007, 04:21 PM) [snapback]403000[/snapback]</div>

Hitler wasn't an atheist.

Stalin was definitely anti-religion--all religions or beliefs that weren't of the party. Don't know if he was an atheist--I guess he could have been.

Including Mao is a little short-sighted, seeing that the ideas of theism are not really part of the religious make-up of the far East.

In none of the above examples was the killing done "In the name of <<insert your choice of God here>>" or to spread a certain religious belief.

Nope--societal beliefs on the first. And evil.

Political/economic beliefs on the second. And evil.

Political/economic beliefs on the third.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Three60guy @ Mar 9 2007, 04:24 PM) [snapback]403003[/snapback]</div>

He'll never stop that any more than he'll stop pretending he's a doctor (would a real doctor be in favor of innocent people being executed? Not if they value life, and if they don't value life, they wouldn't be a doctor. QED).

So do what I do. All I see is

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Mar 9 2007, 04:21 PM) [snapback]403000[/snapback]</div>

 

I'm going by what Wikapedia says (which is not perfect, but I think they are accurate on this topic

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ Mar 9 2007, 03:50 PM) [snapback]403013[/snapback]</div>

True. Gobbels wrote he became increasingly hostile to Christianity and favored beliefs that could support his state (such as Emperor Worship)

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ Mar 9 2007, 03:50 PM) [snapback]403013[/snapback]</div>

Athiest

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ Mar 9 2007, 03:50 PM) [snapback]403013[/snapback]</div>

Athiest


Not exactly the neighbors I'd want. It would get empty if you know what I mean.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Mar 9 2007, 01:21 PM) [snapback]403000[/snapback]</div>

Lively more or less beat me to it, but I'll repeat it:

Stalin was an atheist, but he did not commit his crimes in the name of atheism. He committed them to strengthen his own political power.

The Church committed all its atrocities directly in the name of god, and to further religion.

There is contradictory information regarding Hitler's beliefs. He often claimed in public and in Mein Kampf that he was a Christian. He said that when WW I broke out he fell to his knees and thanked god for it. Later on, he often excoriated the church in private social situations. It sounds to me like he was an anti-clerical believer in god. But since he was a madman and a homicidal maniac, you can hardly blame any of his actions on whatever belief system he might have held.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Three60guy @ Mar 9 2007, 12:11 AM) [snapback]402630[/snapback]</div>

Good Post!

 

Someone mentioned white vs black inregards to crime That is the olny reason I post this..

Please notice these statistics are taken from the FBI for 1995....

This man was/is sick a Child molester should be casterated and made into a Unic, if a child molester molests and kills he/she should be put to death.

I have a freind of a freind who's son was caught trying to have penitration sex with another boy... (we are talking an 9 yr old)..
When he was asked where he learned about doing things like that, he simply replied uncle david showed me!
Come to find out uncle david from the age of 17 till he was 19 w he was molesting the boy at the age of 7 to 9 thats 2 years.. uncle david was a close family friend that would baby sit when needed. ( he's in jail now)
Most inmates do not look favorabily towards child molesters in jails or prisons....

I guess you just never know, They used to have a profile for molesters but that has fallen to the way side as people from all walks of life ages/race/sex/religion/creed dont seem to matter anymore..

There was a video sting series where the media would lure molester over to an address have the molester get naked as per instructions given via the internet.. then they would get talked to by the reporter then arrested..

I really feel sorry for the child or anyone who has something like that happen to them....

 

And I wonder, how many African Americans are below the poverty level compared to Caucasians? And how much crime in general can be associated with folks below the poverty level? Just curious.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ Mar 9 2007, 07:01 PM) [snapback]403079[/snapback]</div>

dont shoot the messenger, The graphs & statistics are out there.. regarding crime vs poverty, crime vs age, crime vs race, the links to the FBI are there for people to research... the information is an eye opener... :mellow:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(desynch @ Mar 9 2007, 09:56 AM) [snapback]402877[/snapback]</div>

Each year, the FBI publishes the crime stats. You can find them on-line at http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/ucr.htm and at your library, in the reference section. They are called the "Uniform Crime Reports". They are based on reports from local law enforcement agencies, and they show a much higher prevalence of violent crime arrests for young black men than for young white men. The stats, such as they are, are what Priusguy posted.

There might be a bias at work because blacks may be more likely to be arrested for a violent crime, while whites are more likely to have a higher standard of proof applied by the police. There might be a bias at work because not all of the agencies in the states report to the FBI. I don't know if there is any validity to the idea of bias in the stats or not, but sociologists and pundits have noted that the rise in black crime, which used to be equal to that of whites in the bad old days, corresponds with the breakdown in the African American family and the rise of single parent households.

Some stats say that up to one third of the black men under 30 are in the criminal justice system in some respect; either serving time, on probation or parole, or have served time. That's a stunning statistic, if true (I haven't been able to confirm that one).

The single greatest predictor of violent criminal activity is whether or not there was a father in the home, according to some folks like the Fatherhood Project.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ Mar 9 2007, 01:50 PM) [snapback]403013[/snapback]</div>

Hitler was not an atheist, and the Third Reich was not an atheistic society (they have the "Church of the Third Reich", intended to replace Christian churches with a return to the old Germanic paganism).

However, Lenin and Stalin were both committed atheists who promulgated a political philosophy and, in the case of Stalin, created a society based on atheism. Mao followed suit, as most communists did, and established modern China as an officially atheistic society, persecuting religious groups such as the large number of Christians and the Tibetan monks. Pol Pot, in Cambodia, followed Mao's example. The atrocities committed by these men ... in terms of sheer numbers ... show that genocide and mass murder are not merely the province of religious societies. Indeed, many more people were killed by Stalin alone than all of the progroms and wars of western Christianity over 2000 years.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(priusguy04 @ Mar 9 2007, 07:16 PM) [snapback]403086[/snapback]</div>

Of course more blacks are arrested!

"You just got caught robbing a bank? You're white? Go home, kid, and don't do it again."

"You just got caught jaywalking? You're black? Rodney King time!"

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Oxo @ Mar 8 2007, 12:31 PM) [snapback]402390[/snapback]</div>

That is a bad translation from the original Hebrew. The actual biblical prohibition is against murder, not all killings. It is permitted to kill in self defense, in defense of others, in war and as punishment meted by the courts. There is plenty of capital punishment sanctioned in the Bible.

This is the commandment in the original Hebrew with the accurate translation as provided by the Jewish Publication Society:

P.S. I am not expressing my opinion whether the death penalty is appropriate in this case. I do not have enough information about the defendant and his background to make an informed decision.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ Mar 9 2007, 04:01 PM) [snapback]403079[/snapback]</div>

There are plenty of poor people out there that don't commit crimes, so I don't think poverty is a valid reason to commit crimes.

Wildkow