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Car affordability in 2022 and beyond

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by Leadfoot J. McCoalroller, Jul 2, 2022.

  1. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Then there is the old bit of banks not wanting to approve a mortgage for x, but your suppose to save more for a house while paying x or more in rent.
     
  2. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    The only way I beat that was by moving my NYC job out to them thar hills. Since it's a travel job most clients never noticed where I was flying in from.

    Still wasn't easy.

    Now I guess we are stuck here, because nobody has enough money to buy our house, and even if they did, our borrowing costs on the next place would be astronomical compared to what we got in a March 2020 re-fi on this one. Good thing we still like it here.
     
  3. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Well, the US is not bad at all with ONLY 16% of the population older than 65. That is at 36th on the list of the "Top 50 Countries With the Largest Percentage of Older Adults". There are more Millennials than Boomers now, and GenX and GenZ will topple the boomer soon, if not already. The generational shift has been taking place as usual. And you can't blame the change on any particular age group. But, if I had a choice, I would have retired early. And hopefully not live too old.

    Countries With the Oldest Populations in the World | PRB
     
    #143 Salamander_King, Mar 11, 2023
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2023
  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    our kids are 43, 40 and 38, and we never have these discussions. they all worked hard in school, have good careers and own their own homes.
    and yes, they can afford an automobile.i never hear them blaming the world for whatever problems they might have.
     
  5. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    Well, not really.

    Boomers are selling their houses, but not necessarily to the younger people who need them. More and more, they're selling to hedge funds who will rent those houses to the younger generations. This makes housing (and the financial security of owning such) harder to attain by several measures in one stroke.

    That means the shift (in assets) is actually going from less-wealthy boomers to more-wealthy boomers with all the younger generations locked out. The only role left to them is exploitation target.
     
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  6. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    I don't understand why the older generation is expected to pass on the properties to the younger generation? I have sold a house twice in my life, but I never picked a buyer by their age.

    Well, I don't know the stats, and I don't really care. The change has been taking place that may or may not be the same as the way things were 50 years ago. But that is the generation shift and change of time. We all have gone through this. Some unpredictable changes, and some repeated.
     
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  7. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    yeah, we felt the same way when we got married. driving an old beater and not being able to afford a house.
    some people want it on a silver platter, and whine if they don't get it.
     
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  8. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    Don't get me wrong- I have no expectation for anyone who went before me to leave me anything.

    You should try to extract all value from properties you sell. You should prefer the hedge fund that rolls up with an all-cash offer vs. the family that says "hang on bank is almost ready." That is good fiduciary duty to your family.

    I'm pointing out how it can damage future generations and attempting to show empathy for the folks who have to go come up through this system. I'm glad they're still figuring it out, but it looks like it is still getting worse.

    I'm not out to blame anyone for doing what is right for themselves or their famililes, but I'm also not going to go around lying to everyone about "land of great opportunity" or just giving a tired out "whatever, unpredictable shift" to big business strip-mining the middle class.
     
    #148 Leadfoot J. McCoalroller, Mar 11, 2023
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2023
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  9. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    This all goes back to the perspective of the individual. Do you see the glass as half full or half empty? But IMHO, worrying about the future is fruitless. No one knows what the future holds. Besides, I feel house and car ownerships are first-world problems. I am certain that today's younger generations will survive and thrive through the change of time as the older generations did in their younger ages.
     
  10. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    @bisco you seem preoccupied with blame, or maybe just avoiding it? Relax! None of this is personal. I am not blaming you. I'm not blaming anyone- there's no point to the blame game. There's a very big point to understanding what is going on, but we don't need to go out of our way to make people feel bad about it.

    If anything I want to thank you guys for keeping up a good discussion on the topic of economics.

    I realize we have rambled beyond the bounds of car affordability, but maybe not too far and I think it's been a good discussion overall.
     
    #150 Leadfoot J. McCoalroller, Mar 11, 2023
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2023
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  11. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The new generation doesn't get to start with a clean slate with the shift.

    The article wasn't about the future. It was about the past. Many looking at the economy are only focused on the last few years, and overlooking how the older history played a part. Issues can't be addressed if they aren't acknowledged.
     
  12. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    The way I look at it, no generation starts with a clean slate. It is always built upon past history, good or bad.

    Again, no one can change the past. Blaming the past generations' behavior is not going to change the predicament the younger generation is in right now, and what would hold for them in the future. Yeah, you can learn from it... but if history tells me something, I have to guess, mankind is very bad at learning from the past to make the future brighter.
     
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  13. John321

    John321 Senior Member

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    https://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/rankings/the-100-best-jobs

    Aging populations can open whole new areas for job growth that are attractive. The retirement boom also will speed career progression for many individuals. At my old place of work it would be hard to find someone in management who wasn't younger than 50 with the majority being in the 35 to 45 year old range.

    The ability to work from home is a new opportunity for many that used to be unheard of. Medical fields, skilled trades, public safety are all Carrers than are booming right now. Many states have programs to help young people get into trade school and medical fields because of the shortages. The future is bright for individuals entering the work force with many opportunities that we could never have imagined 50 years ago

    A Guide to Skilled Trades Apprenticeships and Internships | BestColleges

    Here is just one state program to help fill their Skilled Trades deficit.

    Apprenticeship in Ohio

    Many states Community Colleges now offer incentives to get individuals into their two year medical degree programs- dental hygienist, physical therapist, reparatory therapist etc

    This is an older program but there are many more

    State-Incentive-Programs-Allied-Health-FR-2019.pdf (washington.edu)
     
    #153 John321, Mar 12, 2023
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2023
  14. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The blaming in the article is because the author is pessimistic of the issues being addressed with the older generations still in charge.

    "The median age of voting House lawmakers is 57.9 years... The new Senate’s median age, on the other hand, is 65.3 years..."
    https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2023/01/30/house-gets-younger-senate-gets-older-a-look-at-the-age-and-generation-of-lawmakers-in-the-118th-congress/

    The shift there is slow. With younger members likely being newer, they are only going to be minority on the more important committees.

    Regardless of how the article was framed, it had valid points. My responses here were in reaction to what appeared to be an attempt to brush it all aside. Yes, everyone had to deal with their parent's mess, but the mess isn't always the same.
     
  15. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    Not only hedge funds, but foreign buyers and investors as well, and real estate companies
     
  16. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    Some of the jobs on that list are shown with what are subsistence wages for anywhere in the U.S.A. Zero opportunity for savings or participation in wealth-building through home ownership. Those jobs may make their practitioners feel good but that list is bunko damaged goods in an economics thead.

    EDIT: Adding (hours later):

    NBC News link: Nurses hit with hefty debt when trying to leave hospitals

    Future not looking so bright for nursing graduates.

    This is somebody setting a structural trap to fleece people who put in the work to become nurses and burden them right from the get-go, as if they weren't already saddled with loans from their nursing education.

    Cory Doctorow has coined a term for this kind of thing and I think it applies here: Enshittification. I apologize for its lexical payload and I'll only use it the once there. He used in the context of online social networks progressing into burdens on the population, but I think it still works.

    According to the NBC report, this isn't a corporation doing this, it's a whole industry full of them trying this.
     
    #156 Leadfoot J. McCoalroller, Mar 12, 2023
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2023
  17. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    I’m cool man, no worries. I simply have a different opinion
     
  18. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Wait for another 30 years, all boomers will be purged out of the system, then Millennials can do whatever they want to do. But I suspect by then GenZ and the next generation will be complaining about the system Millenials built not working for them.

    I acknowledge that the problem exists in current society, especially in the area of economic inequality. However, I have absolutely no interest in discussing monetary policy changes. My point is that blaming that societal problem on a single generation makes no sense. We are all in it together, one way or another.
     
  19. Paladain55

    Paladain55 Active Member

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    It really is pretty sad that manufacturers now prefer to sell loaded models and trick you into entire packages just to get one item you like instead of wanting to make an effort to sell affordable models. On top of that the EPA is really making it hard to make cheap reliable cars. One interesting one is how diesel here is typically seen as unreliable and expensive to drive, where outside of the country they are cheap and reliable transportation for 90% of the world. I almost wonder if they made them economically unfeasible on purpose.
    Gotta vote with the wallet folks. But really the only way to strike back on all of this nonsense outside of that is we need to learn how to start becoming more self reliant and fix and reuse things. They want to go to the "you will own nothing and you will be happy" thing to increase profits and keep up with their increase profits every year by any cost model by making you want a new phone every year, a new car every couple years, moving houses and jobs every couple years, throwing away things and appliances instead of fixing them, not learning how to do anything for yourself etc... It really does come to a point where you are stuck in a constant payment cycle and they really are right. Its as if you're renting the shit.
    Welcome to the end of growth folks (for this time period), stagflation is about up, we are headed into deflation this year and I don't think the above policies will help save these businesses profit margins. Make sure your money is fdic insured this year.
     
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  20. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    I'm getting the feeling that a few readers on this thread are unable to distinguish between objective discussion of unfortunate facts and complaints.

    If there's anyone out there reading a whiny tone out of this thread, that's happening in your own head.
     
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