Car not charged at set departure time?

Discussion in 'Prime Technical Discussion' started by Hydrocket, Oct 26, 2020.

  1. Hydrocket

    Hydrocket New Member

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    New to the forum and my Prime, so forgive if this has been discussed. I tried search (?) and couldn't find anything.

    I've been using a schedule with (cabin conditioning) and to my surprise, the car was still charging at departure time yesterday. It was close to being charged (90 percent) but still not fully charged. First time this has happened.

    So are departure times not set in stone, then?

    Just wondering...
     
  2. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    I can’t recall seeing that myself — maybe perhaps once or twice at most.

    I can’t immediately recall how the charging system gets its time, but could it perhaps be a daylight-savings confusion (just an idea)?
     
  3. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    That's perfectly normal. Here is an excerpt from the manual describing the situations when the Departure time is off. The highlighted is the situation you encountered. If you do not get charge completed by set departure time often, you can just adjust the time of departure 1 hour earlier to accommodate the shortage of the charge time.

    upload_2020-10-26_16-19-38.png
     
  4. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    Not unusual, as @Salamander_King pointed out. I have a meter on my outlet. When the car's air conditioner is running, the meter only shows the car drawing 0.58A at 240v. When the AC isn't running, it pulls the full 16A my L2 EVSE will supply. I remain puzzled as to why, if the AC only needs half an amp at 240V (probably 1A at 120V), it can't charge and cool at the same time. But that's the way it is. The manual should say, "To have the hybrid battery (traction battery) fully charged, allow charging to continue while the sun reheats all that nice cool air in the cabin." :whistle:
     
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  5. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    That’s interesting; I can’t recall for sure seeing that.

    Then again, come to think of it, during weekdays, when I do a timed charge, I *intentionally* set it to *not* fully charge, because I don’t need quite a full charge to get to work, and I have quasi-free charging at work.

    On weekends, I may have the charge-by time enough ahead of time that I never ran into this.

    Then again, with COVID19, I’ve been WFHing since mid-March, so that’s all kinda different now...
     
  6. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Yeah the only thing I can think of is that you were using 120V and had climate control ON (with the departure time) so after pre-conditioning (it starts 10 minutes prior to departure time), it'll turn off and then the car will top up the battery again.

    90% seems a bit low (10% use for climate?) but then again, I park in a parkade and not outdoors so maybe my pre-conditioning needs less power?
     
  7. Hydrocket

    Hydrocket New Member

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    Thanks for the thoughtful replies.

    Temp had dropped somewhat overnight...so that likely played into it.

    Cheers!
     
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  8. Hydrocket

    Hydrocket New Member

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    So will climate prep also heat the car? Or will it just cool it?

    If it heats the car, I take it you need to have the ECO heat/cool switched on?
     
  9. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    I live in Austin, so I mostly think about cooling the car. However, my recollection is that it adjusts the temperature to whatever you have it set to. The owners manual seems to confirm that, saying, “by adjusting the cabin temperature in advance, passengers can enjoy a pleasant interior immediately after entering the vehicle.”
     
  10. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    @mr88cet is correct. Climate prep will heat or cool whichever is needed to prep the cabin to the temp last set before you shut down the car. If you live in CA, this will work most of the time, but for more Northern states, the heating is limited to only the heat pump effective range. It will work down to ~14F but not lower. At below 25F, the heat pump climate prep usually do not heat up the cabin warm enough. It runs at the near the end of the charging and uses the traction battery. In my experience, by the time I get in the car, car is no longer warm. It is mostly a waste of traction battery energy. Thus I never use the climate prep on my car.
     
    #10 Salamander_King, Oct 27, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2020
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  11. Hydrocket

    Hydrocket New Member

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    Yes, based on the last 2 days with the car not being ready at departure time, it would seem the heat pump isn't terribly potent.

    Outside temp was about 40 degrees and cabin temp was set to 76...and it couldn't reach that target in the allotted time.

    So I'd imagine it will be useless during our southern Canadian winter.
     
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  12. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Well, I have a small digital thermometer on the dash to check the cabin temp and my HVAC is always set at 70F when it's on. In my experience, the cabin temp never reaches the set temp that is unless the ambient temp is very close to actual set temperature in which case, I don't usually use HVAC. This is not for climate prep, but for normal operation during my usual drive of ~30min commuting. That being said, what I feel comfortable is usually not the set temperature but how my body feel the warmth or coolness. I can be quite comfortable in cabin temp of 25F when the outside temp is 6F, and likewise when the outside temp is 92F and inside is 80F.
     
  13. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    It’s probably fair to say that Climate Prep works best if you have an enclosed garage (or at least a carport) to charge it in. It works pretty well for me under these circumstances, and even reasonably well in the parking garage at work, in the cold or the heat.

    Then again, by “the cold,” I’m referring to Austin “cold.” meaning “dead-of-Winter day-lows in the 40ish range and day-highs in the 55-60ish range, and rarely ever below freezing.”


    For Austin’s very-mild Winters, I find that the heat pump works very well, and while it is less efficient than the air conditioner, it doesn’t rob nearly as much range as I’d originally imagined it might.

    Actually, I’ve found I can get a surprisingly good warming effect from turning on the seat and steering-wheel heaters, and the heat pump. Then, after a few minutes, shut off the seat heater and all HVAC functions including the fan, but keep the steering-wheel heater on.
     
    #13 mr88cet, Oct 27, 2020
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  14. Hydrocket

    Hydrocket New Member

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  15. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Yeah, difference in perception makes quite different impression on how well or how poorly the heat pump works. For me low of 40ish and day high of 55ish is very comfortable cool autumn day when I will not use any HVAC at all. I don't need any heat in my car down to about 25F, at which temp the heat pump is no longer very effective, and when I really want some heat at the ambient temp of single digit or below, the heat pump does not function at all. During winter I turn on the engine by switching to HV mode as soon as I start the car. Our house thermometer is set at 55F most of the winter even when the outside temp is subzero, but still uses 500+ gal of oil to heat our house. By comparison, a small amount of gasoline used to heat in addition to move the car is nothing.
     
    #15 Salamander_King, Oct 27, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2020
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  16. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Both.

    No. Eco Heat/Cool is a separate function. It just limits the electricity use of the heat pump or A/C compressor, thus saving fuel (or electrons). It uses the last setting of your climate control when you turned off the car.

    Hmm, again it might be because I'm in a parkade but setting the temp at 22.0°C with pre-conditioning gets a decently toasty interior. Parkade temp is around 10-15°C? Yesterday it was 7°C outside and pre-conditioning (but on a 120V charger) gave me a warm interior. (Climate control temp set at 21.5°C)
     
  17. AldoON

    AldoON Junior Member

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    I played with pre conditioning the other day and was disappointed to find the same thing... Car not fully charged at my departure time. This was with level 2 charging.


    Ignoring the issue of comfort, what is better to get the most winter EV range? Pre heating and battery not full charged at departure VS battery fully charged at departure but heat cabin on auto mode when you start driving?

    I live in Canada. It's cold. Let's assume outside temperature of -8 C and heater sure to 19 C.
     
  18. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    In my experience, at ambient temperature below -10C (14F) you will have a fire the engine to heat the cabin anyway. I have tried driving my 2017 PP in the middle of winter at 14F or below without heat, but the EV range was still diminished substantially. I almost always started my car in HV mode in my morning commute to get heat and save the EV range for my afternoon milder temp drive back home. Still, my winter EV range was close down to ~20 miles from summertime ~32 miles.
     
  19. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Pre-heating.

    If you're cold, you tend to increase the heater use and the battery would drain anyway. Also, you could adjust the departure time to 10 minutes earlier if a full charge is needed (but you have to balance that with the fact the pre-conditioning will stop earlier and thus the cabin will begin to cool down earlier). Plus the HV battery will be warmer if the cabin is warmer.

    Another option is to install an EBH and while it seems silly to be charging the car AND heating the engine, at least you could fire up the engine and since the engine is somewhat warm from the EBH, use that heat to heat the cabin. Once the engine has done its initial warm-up period, shut it down and revert back to EV mode, using the HV battery to maintain cabin temperature. (It also means you can do your annual purge of fuel in the tank and start with a fresh tank in the spring).
     
  20. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    You'll need level II charging (240v) to get peak charging performance when pre-conditioning (especially heating). Level I 120v (stock) can't really keep up. For me, this is reason alone to justify getting a level II setup.
     
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