Carbon filter in air filter housing cover problem

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by Richard Schieffer 2, Jul 1, 2014.

  1. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Can you explain what you are thinking that even has to do with it?

    You haven't got 5% extra alcohol in there. E10 is 10% ethanol, 90% gasoline. E85 is 85% ethanol, 15% gasoline. You're running 8½ times the ethanol concentration the car was designed for.

    It's an interesting experiment ... I wonder what your fuel trim values are at the moment.

    Still, it might be good to not continue the experiment indefinitely.
     
  2. chronon

    chronon Member

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    Sorry man... its hard to stay on topic when so many variables occurr .. i should have posted on fuel but it is an air/fuel ratio thing which sort of relates to the carbon absorber .. ha -- yeah i can pull up fuel trims on the torque and monitor that .. yes .. i thought at first 'well maybe a half a tank ' wont hurt .. then i was filling up all the time on e85 as i thought 'well maybe every other tank' -- i think what got me sold was the tag ' it is against federal something or other ' that just says 'hmmm... way to give uncle same some payback' ha ha .----
    yes when u say 8.5 times .. u really knock that bell hard .. 5 % sounds like a drop in the bucket ...
    i'm not unfamiliar with fairly deep math ... if 10 % is to design criteria (or 90% gas) and one uses 15% alc (or 85% gas) then please explain how 15% alc is 8.5 times more than design criteria for 10% alc... thx
     
  3. chronon

    chronon Member

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    (as an off topic side note : now that we gone there .. on e85 .. i found that in the city e85 costs more .. in the burbs it costs less than reg 87 E90 )
     
  4. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sunday driver DIY’r

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    Ok, wait a sec: Toyota recommends something like 10~15% max ethanol content, and you're going with 85%? :ROFLMAO:

    Just cements my resolve: I'll always buy new. :)
     
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  5. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    You've got it backwards. E85 isn't 15% alc and 85% gas. It's 15% gas and 85% alc.
     
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  6. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sunday driver DIY’r

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    It is an easy misconception: there’s zero, ten and fifteen percent. Oh and then this other one, mumble mumble...

    Maybe marketing this is intentional; I went through mental-aerobics, the first few times I saw that E85 moniker, thought the same thing, that it was 15% ethanol. 85%? No way...
     
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  7. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    All the same, the designations are consistent: Exx is xx% ethanol.
     
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  8. AzWxGuy

    AzWxGuy Weather Guy

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    Seems as though they could put those corn squeezin's to better use...
     
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  9. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sunday driver DIY’r

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    I’ll drink to that. :coffee:
     
  10. chronon

    chronon Member

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    .. they seem to have been used interchangeably
    --- but essentially up to 15% alc or up to 10% alc content of your gasoline / petrol.
    well .. it can be confusing because I cant beleive the gas pump (or ethanol pump is selling you 85% alc and 15% gas .
    Attached pic taken ~ 3wks ago .. unfort. -- didnt get the big tag on the pump handly itself which I think it what has lead to the confusion -- will try and get it next time at pump ....

    Here is a nice pic of pump shows E-30 and E-15 .. which is intuitive .. and a nice article : Clearing Up Myths About E85 And Ethanol: 16 Things You Need To Know

    and now .. a nice article about less energy in ethanol than gas : Ethanol
     

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    #30 chronon, Feb 21, 2021 at 10:33 PM
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2021 at 10:41 PM
  11. chronon

    chronon Member

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    it seems they have changed the stickers on the pumps .. u can see here in this pic ..
    anyway: if u r doing stop and go driving u need the power for accel : get the E10
    if u r doing mostly highway .. well it dont take as much to get down the road and u prob. could get buy on E 15 here and there (though I dont know what kind of issues could occurr as E10 is recommended) -- I have been driving on E15 a couple months and u might feel 5% less acceleration ...

    In this picture of the pump yesterday .. u can see they slapped a sticker over some confusing base pump thing that likely said 'E85' .... (where it now says 'Unleaded 88' )
     

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  12. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Nothing 'interchangeable' about it; still backwards. E85 is 85% alc.

    The nice article itself confirms

     
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  13. mr_guy_mann

    mr_guy_mann Member

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    You don't have "5% less acceleration" when going to E15. The primary concern is the energy content per gallon of the fuel. Straight 100% gasoline has about 114,000 btu/gal while pure ethanol has 76,100 btu/gal. Each "Exx" blend has a proportional energy content, E10 at 111,800 btu/gal and E85 at 88,250 btu/gal. So the more ethanol there is in the fuel, then the more VOLUME of fuel is needed to achieve the same stoichiometric fuel mixture (Lambda value of 1.0) and engine output. The ecu only cares about what it "sees" at the air fuel sensor.

    Normal (non flex fuel) cars are designed for normal gas. E10 is only a few percent difference and is well within the ecu's range to adjust injection time (aka Fuel Trim). If you give the car higher ethanol fuel, the ecu can't know this- it just sees a lean condition (same amount of air but “less" fuel) and will attempt to increase Fuel Trim. When it reaches about +20% it usually sets a code. E85 needs almost +30% more fuel to equal straight gasoline. That's on a car with zero problems- "perfect" fuel trim beforehand.

    Flex fuel cars have injectors (and other fuel system parts) that can handle the increased volume required, as well as resisting corrosion and such from ethanol. These cars also have a sensor or some other means to figure out the ethanol content of the fuel, so the ecu knows what its fuel baseline is. E10 has a different fuel map programmed vs E85.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  14. chronon

    chronon Member

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    mpg will go down with more alcohol in the fuel mix, or more fuel will be used to go the same distance as with straight gas.

    Like I posted .. the picture preiously attached shows how they put an E15 sticker on top of the pump case -- which had 'E85' on it .. so .. not sure who's mistake it was or if it really ever was E85 .. but that's where the confusion arised ...
     
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