Cargo capacity, compared to 2016?

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-Current)' started by Danny Troy, Mar 29, 2016.

  1. DavidA

    DavidA Prius owner since July 2009

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    Do the rear seats fold down tighter and lower to the floor than the GenIII's or the IV's? Unknown until someone does that measurement. If so, then increase the cubic footage in (only) that area of the car, assuming the roof height from the floor is the same across all models. Not saying the net total footage is better or worse, but there might be a gain for those few feet behind the front seats if they've done something different in the way they fold down. Seems unlikely, but it is possible.
     
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    two extremes in those pics, can you redo it with the gen 4 with spare also?
     
  3. Danny Troy

    Danny Troy Member

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    From the photo I saw of the back seat with the seats folded, they were definitely lower than the cargo area floor. Maybe an inch or two lower. Too bad there is a significant ledge to lift cargo over, in the Prime. Looks kind of weird. Still might be enough cargo area for me though.
     
  4. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    I think you might be onto something there about the seats.
    If you look at Japan vs. EPA Cargo Space for Gen4, I think we have the following:

    EDIT- deleted numbers
     
    #24 wjtracy, Mar 31, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2016
  5. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    With the seats folded, the number should be closer to 900 litres and not 500 litres. (IOW, nearly 45 cu ft). I still think TMS is using everything behind the rear headrests from floor to window. The Japanese numbers in both is about 65% the value of the US numbers.
     
  6. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    OK...

    Getting rid of the speculation, here are most of the historic "facts" I have from Toyota USA on Cargo Space:

    (All numbers SEATS UP unless otherwise noted)

    Gen2 "Toyota" Cargo space = 16.1 cu ft (Toyota brochure)
    Gen2 "Toyota" Under Tonneau Cover = 9.74 cu ft (calc. from Gen3 video)
    Gen2 "Toyota" Under Floor = 1.48-ft3 (calc. from Gen3 Video)*

    Gen3 "EPA" Cargo space = 21.45 cu ft (seats up) (from video below 4:15 minute mark)
    Gen3 "EPA" Cargo space = 39.60 cu ft (seats down)
    Gen3 "Toyota" Under Tonneau Cover = 10.24 cu ft (and this is +0.5 ft3 more than Gen2)
    Gen3 "Toyota" Under Floor = 1.98 ct ft (and this is +0.5 ft3 more than Gen2)*

    Gen3 (PiP Plug-in) "EPA" Cargo space = 21.6 cu ft (Toyota now shows 21.6 for all Gen3+PiP)

    Gen4 "EPA" Cargo Space (w/ spare) 24.6 cu ft
    Gen4 "EPA" Cargo Space (no spare) 27.4 cu ft

    *NOTE: I have been able to confirm Gen2 underfloor compartment is actually 2.4-ft3 but Toyota's data in the video apparently reflects the Tonneau cover being stored in the under floor compartment, and this subtracts about 1-ft3 of volume. So actual Gen2/3 underfloor is 2.4-ft3/2.9-ft3 respectively.

    Discussion:
    Between Gen2 and Gen3 there was change in cargo volume measurement technique to the "EPA Cargo Space" and it would appear - since Toyota said Gen3 was just a little more cargo vol over Gen2 - that the Gen2/3 vol increase from 16.1-ft3 to 21.45-ft3 probably reflects in part the method change.

    Note how little space (~10-ft3) there really was below the Tonneau cover, unless there was an error in Toyota's info (but I do not see an error at the moment based on my own vehicle).

    see 4:15 mark for Gen3 cargo volume


    Here are more "facts" from Toyota - this is European Gen4 specs:

    Load volume (m³) 0,502
    VDA luggage capacity, up to tonneau cover, rear seat up (litres) 343 (=12.1-ft3)

    So they are saying cargo space up to T. cover is 12.1-ft3 (a little more than Gen 2/3) and appartently total space is 502 liters = 17.7-f3. So that would say 5.6-ft3 over T. cover, which is about right compared to my Gen2.

    From here-
    Toyota Prius - A Hybrid Icon. Again.

    I do not know if this is with or without spare. I also do not know why this is different than USA EPA
    cargo space specs, but that's what I'd like to know.

    More facts:
    EU VDA method for Gen3 = 442 liters (15.6-ft3) [I believe that excludes under-floor 2-3 ft3]
    EU VDA method for Gen2 = reportedly 402-liters
     
    #26 wjtracy, Mar 31, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2016
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  7. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    The mystery deepens. Where the heck is TMS/TCI getting their extra 10 cu ft.? That's a lot of missing space.
     
  8. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    Gen2, Gen3, Gen4 reported cargo space varies from 14 to 27-ft3 but in reality we are talking 3 cars with about the same approximate space in the back...a little more for the newer versions...new Prime will be a bit less.
     
  9. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    In a thread somewhere, I posted a link to an article about SUV cargo space differences. There multiple standards for measuring a SUV or wagon's space. The EPA accepted on isn't the newest, nor are manufacturers limited to using that one for their promotional material. Then since the perimeter of the cargo area is rarely made of straight lines, there will be variances based on where the measurements are taken.

    I posted the UK brochures(perhaps in this thread) for the A3 and E-tron to show the space loss it had. The footnote states what standard they used, and it was one using standard sized blocks instead of taking measurements. It may not be the exact same procedure, but filling the space up with blocks is how trunk space is measured for sedans for the EPA.

    The European Prius specs likely use the same method as Audi used. You can't expand the useful volume putting in set sized blocks like can be done including the less useful nooks along the cargo area wall.

    The EPA measurement is above the seat back. GM lists the gen1 Volt cargo at 10.something ft{3} while it is 18ft{3} on Fueleconomy.gov.
     
  10. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    ...I know...I can see where the block loading method misses maybe 3-4 ft3, I measure at least 17-ft3 in my Gen2 (not counting add'l 2.5-ft3 under the floor) but EU reports it as 14.1-ft3. Toyota reported is as 16.1. Then Gen3 went to EPA method and it went up to 21.6-ft3.
     
  11. civicdriver06

    civicdriver06 Active Member

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    They probably measured with seats folded down up to the hight of the tonneau cover .
     
  12. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    I don't think so now...I believe Tideland is correct, the EPA basis is a "seat's Up" basis. Somehow EPA methods allows inflating the space figures (we have lot's of US articles saying there's a problem).

    I don't understand EU VDA method either, as it seems to under account actual space, but it is better.

    Notice above the total EU Gen4 volume 502-liter is not quoted as VDA method, so I have some hope that is actual true mathematical volume.

    >>>Drum roll please........I have the preliminary "answer" to the OP question:

    5 Things to Know About the 2017 Toyota Prius Prime Plug-In Hybrid - Automobile

    But that is 7-ft3 (198 liter) loss on EPA basis, not sure if that is true volume loss.

    If we *assume* it's true volume, then EU cargo volume is 502-198 = 304-liters (10.7-ft3). EPA basis could be as high as 20-ft3 but the caveat is: buyer beware of EPA cargo number.
     
    #32 wjtracy, Apr 2, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2016
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  13. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    In one of these threads where cargo space came up, I posted the UK cargo numbers for the A3 wagon and its E-tron PHEV, because it uses a 8.8kWh pack also. What I can recall is that the plug in lost 100L of cargo space under VDA, and 10L from the fuel tank.

    VDA is the method using standard sized blocks. It will under report total volume as you can't cram the blocks into every nook and crammy, but it is a better measurement of usable space. I don't know if it is the same or just a similar method the EPA uses for trunks.

    PS: If the Prime truly loses 7ft{3}, it will just meet the EPA's midsize class. Midsize starts at 110ft{3}, and the new Volt just misses it. It will be 111ft{3} vs. 109ft{3} between the two. With the Volt starting at under $34k with delivery, Toyota is going to have to get the price right.
    Compare Side-by-Side

     
    #33 Trollbait, Apr 2, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2016
  14. KrPtNk

    KrPtNk Active Member

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    I don't understand why they don't use some kind of an inflatable bag, block off the area forward of the rear seats and fill it it with a measured amount of air.
     
  15. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    Good question.
    I think the auto companies can tell us exactly the cargo volumes from their CAD drawings, so for them it is a choice how to show the data to the public (bigger cargo space is presumably the US trend right now).

    I am working up an explanation of Prius Gen2 to Gen4 cargo space, suffice it to say I need to invoke a transition zone above the rear seat that can be chosen to be called either passenger space or cargo space via the US EPA definition.
     
  16. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Then you got to account for the pressure and temperature of the air.;)
    I think the multiple standards for measuring were written by the SAE. Using standard sized blocks is the best, IMHO, for it gives an idea on the volume of luggage and shopping bags could be fit in the cargo space. I don't know why it isn't used for cargo spaces outside of trunks in the US.
    The EPA also ignores the space of front trunks on the Teslas.
     
  17. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    see further detailed discussion of Gen2-Gen4 over here:
    2016 Prius Product Info | Page 4 | PriusChat
     
  18. KrPtNk

    KrPtNk Active Member

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    I think that temperature and pressure values would be easy to establish and account for in computing the volume.
     
  19. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    It is even something Consumer Reports could do...I assume it's very political and the autos want flexibilty to over report, and EPA wants to give them that option, and CR wants to be politically correct on cars so they want to support EPA (is my opinion).
     
  20. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    @wjtracy Here's the Canadian number

    upload_2018-2-5_19-24-3.png
     
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