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Cars now almost "Tank Size"

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by Stevewoods, Feb 7, 2022.

  1. Stevewoods

    Stevewoods Senior Member

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    Was reading a news story in the Portland, OR paper "The Oregonian." Portland is grappling with a number of pedestrians being hit by cars and one article referred to this story:

    American Cars Are Now Almost As Big As the Tanks That Won WWII

    Hmm. Seems we are going backwards....
     
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  2. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Especially like that last line; not the first time I've heard it.
     
  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    it's unfortunate, but many americans like big vehicles. even recent gas prices rising hasn't caused anyone to bat an eyelash, like it used to.

    but nhtsa belled ev's, and now pedestrians are safe:rolleyes:
     
  4. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

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    $4.50/gallon was different in 2007 dollars versus $3/gallon is 2022 dollars

    I could still buy a blue plate special at the local restaurant for $4.50 in 2007
    I can hardly get a beverage for $3 in 2022
     
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  5. ColoradoBoo

    ColoradoBoo Senior Member

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    I don't think that some pedestrians are completely innocent with their face fixated on their cell phone while walking around...especially the younger folks.
    We were in a restaurant, recently, and saw a big family eating out and they had grandma. Everyone, including Mom and Dad, were staring at their phones while grandma just sat there and watched quietly...it was pretty sad...I would LOVE to be able to have dinner with my Mom and Dad and Grandparents (all have passed.)
     
  6. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

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    I was sitting stationary in my antique Comutacar in the grocery parking lot waiting for pedestrians to clear so I could leave.

    A woman pushed a shopping cart hard into my rear crash bumper hard enough that both her and the cart fell over.

    She wasn’t using a cell, that said our country is miserable when it comes to pedestrian safety, we are not far above 3rd world countries
    If there are benefits to smaller cars (and there are many) we should stop taxing the living $$$$ out of them, change coarse and tax the bigger and AWD non-sedans on the road creating Kei car like legislation that allows the poor and frugal an out to bypass all the new regressive registration taxes
     
  7. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    "As you can see, the most startling result is that there isn't a huge difference. Generally speaking, pickup trucks in the U.S. are about the same length as a Sherman tank, give or take a few inches, and less than two feet narrower. The biggest difference is in height. The Sherman was 108 inches tall, whereas trucks tend to have a cab height of about 76 inches."

    When is almost two feet and over 30 inches not a huge difference in vehicle sizes?
     
  8. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    That sorta depends on one's perspective, doesn't it.

    I will not say that Aaron's article is moronic, because from the standpoint of the pedestrian, ALL cars are "big" enough to get the job done.
    It just practices a "fair and balanced" view of the facts on the ground (or...street.)

    Or?
    As the Blue Checks might be wont to say.....it "lacks perspective."

    Comparing a private passenger car (truck) to a WW-2 era, USA, Tank, Medium M4 (Sherman) lacks more than a little historical perspective, most particularly since the M4, at something like 35 tonnes, was considered to be something of a "death trap" when compared with an adult-sized WW-2 era main battle tank.
    DESPITE being under sized AND under armed, Shermans proved to be reliable, relatively cheap to produce, and thus were available in great numbers BUT they were ALSO a "one-shot kill" against a similarly sized (meaning: USUALLY mostly MORE armed and armored) opponent.
    So many of then were ventilated by ubiquitous German 88s (Flugabwehrkanone, from which the term "Flack" became known) that the M4 gained several inglorious nicknames.
    Burned out tanks were sometimes returned for a hasty refurbishment and re-use but they were understandably loathed by their new crews who reportedly said that they never quite got all of the odors from the previous crew completely removed from the "new" tank hull.
    [​IMG]


    HOWEVER (comma!).
    Even the welterweight tracked Sherman at 35 tonnes can demolish just about ANY private passenger vehicle on ALL of the streets and highways because Aaron's article is conflating VOLUME with MASS.

    Open any breakfast cereal or potato chip bag in a grocery store - if you're lucky enough to find a store without empty shelves and you will get a REAL theory-to-practice demonstration of the difference between MASS and Volume.

    It's been MY experience that pedestrians who are bouncing off of cars in America are ALSO conflating the difference between a STREET and a SIDEWALK. ;)
     
    #8 ETC(SS), Feb 7, 2022
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2022
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  9. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    Lol... And those pesky pedestrians better stay off of my lawn too!
     
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  10. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    My worst personal experience was from a marked crosswalk, with the WALK light in my favor, after the car had actually stopped and I thought I made eye contact with the driver. I ended up leaving fist dents in his hood, from a sprawled position. Fortunately, a city cop witnessed the whole thing, and I was essentially uninjured.

    In a later incident, also in a marked crosswalk with the WALK light in her favor, my mother was less fortunate. She was hit from behind by a inattentive turning driver. Having previously lost a good portion of her mobility, this event permanently removed much of the rest. Before some of the injuries could sufficiently heal, unrelated but essential chemotherapy attacked not just the cancer, but also the injured joints, making her final year even more difficult.

    These made me a more "assertive" pedestrian, frequently giving a very solid whack to the sides of cars that refuse to properly yield to a pedestrian in a crosswalk. Far more drivers here are pedestrian-clueless than where I grew up and took Driver Education.
     
  11. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    ^
    That's what makes Aaron's article above so moronic.

    You're NOT going to be very "assertive" as a pedestrian to ANYTHING even remotely resembling an armoured military vehicle, and even eensy-weensie little Priuses will win a car-pedestrian fight.
    Every time.

    In other words.....it's not the car's fault if a human gets turned into road salsa......it's the fault of one of the humans involved.
    In my experience....it's usually the pedestrian but ACTUAL mileage WILL vary.

    People who yearn for this wonderful utopian truck-free life never really fully consider how things are powered, built and delivered in this or any other nation.
    Back in my beloved home state of Indiana there are many Amish communities that do completely without tank-sized cars OR car sized-tanks....but that "car-free life" doesn't really scale up to allow for megalopolisis to function very well...or cultures that value the contributions of 'publications' like......Vice.

    Besides....horse-drawn carts can be pretty dangerous too.
    Otherwise Marie Salomea Skłodowska Curie "might" have had only one spouse in her relatively short but very noteworthy life. ;)
     
  12. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    While the humans are primarily at fault, vehicle design is very clearly a contributing factor. Back when I first looked at this a couple decades ago, SUVs and pickups were displaying about twice the non-occupant lethality of that era's lower passenger cars. Where the cars first took out a pedestrian's lower body, the taller vehicles went directly for the deadlier upper body. Though the later of that era also had poorer energy absorbing crush zones too.

    Now cars -- those that haven't been discontinued as more makers and consumers increasingly shift of SUVs and trucks -- are taller too. And while occupant death rates are down this century, even with the pandemic spike, non-occupant death rates are way up.
     
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  13. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    The Lexus grills look like big cheese graters. Thankfully it’s mostly chromed-plastic dreck. :)
     
  14. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    Low speed limits and strict enforcement can improve the safety of any vehicle size

    Too many streets being mistaken for highways.
     
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  15. Stevewoods

    Stevewoods Senior Member

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    Strict enforcement of traffic laws would help.

    But, in the small town near me, most of the officers do not want to do traffic duty, so drivers routinely drive 45-50 mph in the 25 mph zone and ignore the two school zones and ignore the big flashing yellow lights that let them know a pedestrian is trying to cross the street.

    On a local two-lane one-way street two days ago -- and this type incident is common -- The car ahead of me in the left lane stopped for the big flashing yellow lights and the teen-age boy began crossing from the left side. You all know what is coming.

    Car comes up in right lane -- going about 20-25 mph above the speed limit -- does not stop and barely missed crushing the kid crossing.

    Which is way i always am reluctant to stop in such a situation unless I am in the next lane over from the person waiting to cross -- if that makes sense:(:(

    I have seen this happen time and again in many locations. many drivers are just jerks

    And, being hit at 45 mph -- it doesn't take a tank-sized vehicle to do a lot of damage.
     
  16. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

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    Euro zone cars have been found to cause less pedestrian injury and death even outside their native habitat

    So I will agree vehicle design can save both pedestrian and occupant lives, but getting anyone on this side of the pond to do anything pedestrian friendly is basically impossible

    I always feel like this is a video of the average driver in a school zone
     
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  17. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Yes. A good one to start with: enforce the laws regarding coming to full stops behind the white line before proceeding, at stop signs and when turning right on a red light. It'd be like shooting fish in a barrel for the first little while.

    When that gets old: speed limit enforcement. (look up "limit" in the dictionary...)
     
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  18. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    LEOs HATE to pull traffic.
    ALWAYS.
    HOWEVER (comma!) they also hate drivers who speed through school zones, and every single school in all of the counties hereabouts have for-real police cars monitoring traffic at every single school....every single school day.
    I have LEOs AND teachers in my family and you may rest VERY WELL ASSURED that the single fastest way to get a "doubled-up" ticket in MY county would be to bust a school zone's speeding limit.
    Morning AND afternoon.
    It might be a good time to rob a bank....but DO NOT speed through a school zone!
    You may also expect zero mercy if you fight the ticket in court, NOR will the court follow the customary practice of "saving you a few points and a few bucks.'

    Of course....we're MANY MANY miles both physically and politically from ANYWHERE that is currently 'defunding the police.'
     
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  19. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Hopefully this would also encourage Tesla FSD drivers to disable their new 'rolling stop' feature.
     
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  20. hkmb

    hkmb Senior Member

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    Outside America, cars have been getting bigger too. But we are still nowhere near you.

    Here's a bit of context - it'll give you an idea of the situation outside of America.

    The best large SUVs in 2021 | What Car?

    It's a list of the best "large SUVs" on sale in Britain. Some aren't available in the US, but others are. Here's the list of the 10 cars they're classing as good "large SUVs".

    Citroen C5 Aircross
    Mazda CX-5
    Jaguar F-Pace
    Land Rover Discovery Sport
    Ford Kuga (Ford Escape in the US)
    BMW X3
    Audi Q5
    Peugeot 5008
    Hyundai Santa Fe
    Kia Sorento

    Among those that are sold in the US, apart from the F-Pace all these cars have big brothers for the US market that are much, much bigger. Several - the Disco Sport, Kuga, X3 and Q5 - have big brothers that are sold elsewhere too. But I think it is telling that these are classed as "large SUVs" in Britain and many other markets.

    Australia sits kind of between Europe and the US on this. But in the part of Sydney where I live, a lot of US trucks and SUVs would be undriveable. There are lots of narrow streets and tight parking spaces. There is someone near my daughter's school with a Dodge RAM, and there are a lot of roads that he just can't get down.

    I have an X3 because even an X5 is just a bit too big for me to be able to stay relaxed while driving around here. The X7 is just silly, and yet it is not big by US standards.

    I've watched reviews of the Rivian R1T, and it looks like it has brilliant tech. But it would just be impossible to drive here.