CEL; P0441 and P0455

Discussion in 'Prius c Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by cutter44, Mar 31, 2020.

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  1. cutter44

    cutter44 Member

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    Oh boy.

    First of all, I hope you and yours are staying healthy. Like many here I'm sure, I've been working from home for the past couple of weeks. As a result, since 3/13 my 2012 C4 has not been driven its usual 88 mile commute every day. I have taken it out a couple of times for a short errands during this time and when it's been a few days between jaunts, I at least start it up and let the engine run for several minutes. Last time I filled it with gas was the 12th and it's been about half full until I finally decided to fill it up today while I was out.

    Well, when I first started it up to take it for errands today, the CEL was on. First time ever that I can recall. I had just done an oil change about 4k miles ago and the oil is still full (I checked). The car seems to be running fine. I ran a test with my OBD2 and it's showing P0455 and P0441 indicating a large evap leak. It would be nice if it were a simple matter of the gas cap, but I'm doubtful since as I said the tank was half full and the light never came on until today. For the heck of it, I removed and checked the gas cap and it was fine, so I resecured it.

    At the rate I'm driving lately, I won't get a full drive cycle in for at least another week probably. And coincidentally, I have one more payment left on this thing and I was hoping to drive it forever (it has 144k miles on it). Assuming the CEL doesn't go out on its own, what's my next logical step short of bringing it to a dealer? I really don't want to have to do that since it's always the most costly option.

    Thanks in advance for any and all advice.
     
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    how many miles on her?

    check the 12v, is it original? maybe not driving enough to keep it charged.

    if not that, the dealer will need to read the codes
     
  3. cutter44

    cutter44 Member

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    It has 144k miles on it, but it's never had an issue starting. I've never replaced the 12v battery, but it still starts right up fine. A bad 12v wouldn't trigger those codes, would it? They're supposedly indicating a large evap leak.
     
  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    probably not, but if the voltage is low, it can make the computers do funny things.

    my original 12v stranded me last summer
     
  5. dubit

    dubit Senior Member

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    Bisco is right - a 12v battery getting weak can do some very weird things to a Prius. If yours if the original as you say, you've done very well to have gotten 8 years out of it.
     
  6. cutter44

    cutter44 Member

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    Well, I had a battery on my 'to get' list before winter, but figured I could skate through the warmer months. Maybe I have to move it up. Bummer Pep Boys doesn't seem to have it any more.

    What's the definition of "weak" when it comes to checking the existing battery? Could that give me a good indication of it going south?
     
  7. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    it varies. you really need a load tester. you can get a free test at an auto parts store.

    if it starts in the low 12's, and drops to mid 11's with headlights, it's probably on the weak side.

    but you can't assume that's the problem, just a possibility.
     
  8. cutter44

    cutter44 Member

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    Okay, so I'm sure not being used for a long daily commute has taken some toll. That and the fact that as far as I know it's the original 12v battery. I plugged my INNOVA 3721 Battery and Charging System Monitor into the cigarette lighter, hit the On button on the car (without foot on brake) and it showed 11.72v. Started the car and it went up to 14.59v. I guess a new battery wouldn't hurt. But i wish I knew if it had anything to do with the CEL.

    Since PepBoys no longer has the Bosch 51-440BAGM, I'm inclined to just buy an OEM from Toyota and install it myself. That's probably $200+, but an Optima or even that Bosch if I could get it was just under $200. Any other suggestions or battery options I should consider?
     
  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i got an oem, it was the simplest purchase for me. the first one lasted almost 8 years, i can't argue with that
     
  10. cutter44

    cutter44 Member

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    Thanks. I'm leaning toward OEM, too. At least I can be fairly certain it'll be pretty much plug-n-play. Other than the awkwardness of maneuvering in there, I can't imagine it would be too difficult. In fact, it looks pretty straightforward in this video.

     
  11. cutter44

    cutter44 Member

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    Okay, I'm this close to placing an order with my local dealer for a new battery for $211.85. It's a different part number than what I had looked up online, but when I asked him about it he said:

    The new battery number is because the replacement batteries are all Toyota True Starts. The replacement battery now carries a 7 year warranty. The first 2 years are free replacement, and the remainder is pro-rated.

    Based on the numbers from my Innova tester of 11.69v (engine On but not started) and 14.58v (engine running), do you still think a new battery is in order? If I don't have to spend $200+ now, I'd rather not. On the other hand, I don't want any surprises down the road. BTW, the CEL is still on.

     
  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    if you don't want to spend the money, you should get a free load test first
     
  13. cutter44

    cutter44 Member

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    Is that something they'll do at AutoZone or wherever, even thought they don't even sell our battery? I assume they'll have to access the actual battery under the back seat, yes? Even so, I don't think that fits in with the whole "social distancing" thing we're all dealing with right now. Maybe I'll wait a bit.
     
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  14. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    yes, they will. but i wouldn't go either:oops:
     
  15. dubit

    dubit Senior Member

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    If your battery is sitting at 11.69v and isn't in use then it needs to be replaced. Even a simple search on the net of what an idle 12v battery should show will tell you that an idle battery should read between 12.5v minimum. Either way, it's replacement is going to be but only 1 step in resolving your issue.

    Will it cure the CEL light? Possibly, but before you can continue, you need to get a functional 12v battery in place. If it doesn't then you move on from there. But a simple search here at Prius Chat will tell you that an old/dying 12v will cause a Prius to do all sorts of weird things. And your battery is dying...
     
  16. cutter44

    cutter44 Member

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    Thanks for that info. I did search because I knew I had seen similar threads here about voltage, but I'll be darned if I could find them when I looked this time. That's why I asked again.

    Anyway, I never got around to ordering the battery yesterday, but I did have take about a half-hour ride to run a couple of errands. CEL was still on for the duration. Had to get back to work at home. Then this afternoon after I was finished work, I went out to run another errand...and when I started it up I happened to notice no CEL. Maybe the thing just got used to that 90 mile per day commute and when it didn't get it for a couple of weeks, it decided to throw the codes.

    Yeah, yeah, I realize I probably still need a new battery, but for now, I'm enjoying the fact that that light went away.
     
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  17. dubit

    dubit Senior Member

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    There's no "probably need a new battery". But it's your car and your life. Just remember when your sitting in a lot somewhere that we told you so. ;)
     
  18. cutter44

    cutter44 Member

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    Okay, fair point. I'll get one sooner rather than later. If I may, a follow-up question (or 2). As I mentioned, I'm inclined to go with an OEM from the local Toyota dealer. At this point in the car's life, I'm looking for the easiest replacement. I've read the posts regarding adapting a mobility scooter battery, and I've read pros and cons about the Optima yellow top battery. Pep Boys no longer carries the Bosch, which I was originally considering as a replacement, so I think OEM will be my best bet.

    This is my first Prius. In previous vehicles, if the battery needed replacing, I'd just get one of the shelf at the local AutoZone or wherever. I'm not sure how these Prius 12v batteries may be different. Is it safe to assume that if I pick up a battery from the local Toyota dealer it will be fully charged and ready to install or do I need to make sure and ask it to be charged up? If so, does that mean I should order it a day or s before I want to pick it up? Anything else I should be cautious about?

    Thanks.

    P.S. I guess Optima is off the list anyway. According to their own website: We’re sorry we don’t have an OPTIMA® battery that will fit your particular make and model vehicle.

    Duracell from Batteries Plus is $215
    Autocraft from Advance Auto is $200
    AutoZone doesn't show any for Prius C four
    TrueStart from Toyota is $212
     
    #18 cutter44, Apr 4, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2020
  19. iceman13

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    Don’t ask for a Prius C battery, ask for a regular Prius battery. It fits, they are just a little bigger compared to the stock C 12v, which is very very rare size. The battery posts are the same size.
     
  20. dubit

    dubit Senior Member

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    Just go with a Toyota battery. There really isn't a "drop in" aftermarket battery for the C. If you did buy one of those aftermarket batteries with the intention of getting it to fit, your just going to have to find a way to also adapt the clamps so that they will tighten to the posts.

    As for a battery being fully charged when new. I've seen it both ways at the dealership. I suppose you could ask that it be charged, but I guarantee if the guy/girl in the parts dept is busy, they are going to forget about it or assume you won't show up for it anyways. I say that because it happens about 15 times a day. (customers saying they'll be there to pick up whatever --- never show)

    So I suppose when you pick it up, you could ask they show you the voltage. They'll get a bit agitated because they'll have to go borrow a meter from a tech somewhere out on the floor. But if they want to sell it, they'll do it I suppose. Last but not least, I suppose you could just install it in your car. When the C starts up, leave it running for awhile.
     
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