CHAdeMO now works on Model 3's

Discussion in 'Tesla' started by hill, Jul 10, 2019.

  1. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    #1 hill, Jul 10, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    when are you getting one?
     
  3. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    got one . . . .

    [​IMG]

    No way would anyone let it go ... because ya never know ... you may get another car - eventually

    wonder if the subsequent X owner peeled off the priuschat letters ...
     
    #3 hill, Jul 10, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019
  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i hand idea, thought you were driving a minivan(n)
     
  5. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web i3 and Prime

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    I looked at CHAdeMO on a Huntsville-to-Coffeyville trip and for $350, it doesn't make sense:
    • Too close to Little Rock so I can't use the full 50 kW rate
    • Full rate, 50 kW - too slow, less than half the 104 kW we see on a SuperCharger
    • $0.21/min Electrify America @50 kW vs $0.24/min SuperCharger @60-104 kW
    • L2 - 30A L2 / NEMA 14-50 (RV park) can give 30 miles/hr and many are free
    Instead, I bought a J1772-to-TESLA adapter, $95, because I'm leaving the one that came with the car on my J1772 plug and needed to carry a spare in the car. My home, J1772 adapter has a very good, rubber seal that works like an air-lock when I try to take the adapter off. Fortunately, the commercial J1772s get so much use they no longer make an air tight seal.

    I've looked at adding a vent hole or vent 'trough' to the Tesla adapter. This solves the problem at the risk of allowing water invasion of the contact area. But mechanically adding a vent hole or trough is tricky.

    I've been doing more benchmarks.

    With the charging curve, I put together a Standard Range Plus Model 3 sheet to predict the trip time (i.e., block-to-block speed) as a function of distance between SuperChargers and the cruise control set speed. According to the model:
    • 85.7 mi - Athens AL to Brentwood TN distance
    • 73 mph - Traffic Aware Cruise Control speed
    • 60 mph - trip speed
    [​IMG]
    So I took a round trip Athens AL to Brentwood TN and back. It wasn't a perfect benchmark:
    • Arrived at Athens with 25% SOC, more than the 10% target.
    • Arrived at Brentwood with 4% SOC, less than the 10% target.
    • Brentwood has a higher speed, 104 kW, SuperCharger than Athens, 100 kW.
    Here is the result:
    [​IMG]
    • Indicated 73 mph on GPS recording app
    • Travel velocity was 72.4 mph, close enough
    • Average trip speed including charging, 61.4 mph close enough
    Charging costs:
    • Athens AL to Brentwood - $2.25, 9 min Tier 2 (arrived with 25% SOC, ended Brentwood at 5% SOC)
    • Brentwood to Athens AL - $4.93, 17 min Tier 2 (arrived with 5% SOC, ended Athens with 12% SOC)
    • Total - $7.18 for 171 miles . . . ~2.87 gal of gas @$2.50/gal . . . 59.6 MPG equivalent
    Lesson learned: if you put in your next SuperCharger and navigate to it, the charging screen will plan on a 10% reserve (24 mi) and count down to that departure SOC. You can stay on the charger longer for more reserve but having 10% appears to work fine in the SouthEast.

    BACKGROUND

    Recently Bjorn Nyland participated in a 2,781 km (~1,738 mi) in 24 hours, ~72.4 mph dawn-to-dawn speed. For a Standard Range Model 3, we'd have driven +90 mph . . . before addressing the 100-104 kW charging rate. I was just curious.

    - - - - - also - - - - -

    My Standard Range Plus Model 3 shows the maximum speed and lowest cost is to charge frequently at LOW, 5-10% SOC. On the first trip of the day, use the maximum range and we're in complete agreement. But my long range trips are way beyond the 220-240 EV range:

    OPTIMUM RANGE

    [​IMG]
    • charge too frequently - the ramp up time delays getting on the highway and making miles.
    • charge too long - the charge taper delays getting on the highway and making miles.
    • 65 mph - modeled because long distance truckers can always be found at that speed. Less frequently found are 70 mph. Above 70 mph, they don't go because of the speeding fines.
    GRAPHICAL REPRESENTATION OF THE RULES

    [​IMG]

    MAXIMIZE HIGH-SPEED CHARGING

    [​IMG]
    Here is a recorded, SuperCharger session with annotation showing the 'sweet spot.'

    SUMMARY
    1. First trip start with 100% SOC which means choosing hotel/motels with Tesla distribution and/or J1772 charging stations. When making reservation inform management (above the reservation clerk) that you expect to find the chargers working after you check-in. They may have maintenance turn on the circuit to prevent charger parasites who also take a parking place. Regardless, overnight charging is 'free' and you leave ready for a long leg.
    2. Subsequent segments, put in the next SuperCharger as your destination so the charging display will 'count down' to a 10% reserve. Leave sooner if you know the relative altitudes are descending. A little longer if ascending.
    3. Try to leave when it reaches 60 kW rate to avoid excessive and delays charging at Tier 1 rates.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #5 bwilson4web, Jul 11, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2019
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  6. golfmk681

    golfmk681 Member

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    I wish the adapter was cheaper. Since I got the long range charging outside my home isn’t a big deal. And super chargers are everywhere. But I’d love to get one just in case. #dongle4life
     
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  7. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    We got the adapter because we were up in Snow Country, Utah, & the only thing they had up in those areas were CHAdeMO's.
    .
     
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  8. golfmk681

    golfmk681 Member

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    So you’ve used it? You should post your user experience
     
  9. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Highest charge rate we experienced was 48kW's. The slowest was 24kW's. The units ALL throttle back their charge rate much faster than superchargers, dropping about 20% off of their charge speed by the time you reach a 50% charge. The CHAdeMO units at the Nissan dealerships (manufactured by aerovironment - and commonly blocked by their employees' cars - then inaccessible after hours) are the worst for dropping their rate of charge quickly - followed closely by high priced EV-go folks ..... but even the chargepoint CHAdeMO throttle back too quick. It appears the units heat up quick, & more than likely, this is the reason for the throttle back, of rate of charge. This is especially bothersome with Ev-go, because some of them around our area charge fees by the minute, rather than by the kWh. That means it's to their advantage to run them slow, then continue dropping the charge speed.
    Blink ? Around here, their CHAdeMO's are so unreliable, that only few choose to use them. Except for an orange patch in front - the Chargepoint CHAdeMO are encased in black plastic - so even on a hot day, not running, they are already up to and easy 130°f
    [​IMG]
    They ought to put a little shelter over them, benefiting from shade as well as rain exposure.. EATON? Very few around here & far between. Nevertheless, they ARE badass, with very little drop, & always near 48kW's.
    This was up in Park City Utah last summer - using the only QC w/in 50 miles - an EV-go CHAdeMO;
    [​IMG]
    .
     
    #9 hill, Jul 24, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2019
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  10. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web i3 and Prime

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    I am waiting for the software to run CHAdeMO on my Model 3. I'm planning to borrow one from a local friend and do some benchmarks: charge vs time. I was initially just going to use the one downtown, a donated Nissan charger. Now it looks like I'll have to do both Electrify America in Manchester and an EVgo in Nashville.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  11. golfmk681

    golfmk681 Member

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    Gosh I guess we are spoiled by the supercharger that wants us charged up quickly and moving on and not taking up the spot.

    By charging by the minute, the incentive is to milk the user and slow the charge.
     
  12. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    it gets them off the spot too - for some other possible user. Often there are only 1 or 2 of these units at most in the same location (if they're both working) . But if it's the best thing going in some remote area? so be it .... beggars can't be choosers
    .
     
  13. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The charging company may not have a choice. In some localities, only the power company can directly charge for a watt.
     
  14. 3PriusMike

    3PriusMike Prius owner since 2000, Tesla M3 2018

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    Yes, this is the simplistic excuse that people have been giving for years. But I think that if they wanted to they could setup tiers of charging rates and have a different fee for different rate tiers. They just choose not to. They figure, maybe, that
    a) people are dumb;
    b) that anyone charging here and not at home is desperate so a few more dollars doesn't matter;
    c) anyone buying an EV must be rich;
    d) it cost a lot for this charger so I have to get my money back soon.

    Mike
     
  15. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    e)plug ins with a slow charger are likely a PHEV, and can just use gas if they don't want to pay for a charger

    In some spots, the typical parking fees could be more than the electricity.
    d is an important one. If these companies can't make a profit, then there won't be public charging infrastructure.
    If the cost is lower than the gasoline to fill a comparable car's tank, plus parking fees, then it is probably reasonable.

    When plug ins become more common, we will see charger company start getting competitive in pricing. Right now, the chargers in plug in country need to support the ones in the deserts.
     
  16. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    f) (at least in the major plug-in state, California) electric customers pay dearly if during any hour of any day of any month, the customer's usage goes above a set threshold amount (25kWh - 35kWh) - the utility Levy's extremely high demand fees for the year based on the notion that location / user will possibly need its own transformer.
    .
     
  17. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web i3 and Prime

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    In California we see a paradox:
    • Excess charges for daytime usage.
    • Excess photo and wind generation in the daytime.
    Bob Wilson
     
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  18. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The renewable prices will drop with excess supply for wholesale. Which is what the power distribution company is paying, but that isn't what they are charging the charger company. Even if they did get a lower rate, the overhead for the charger isn't going to change with the electric rate, and that is probably a good part of the price to the customer.

    Gas stations have minimum margins on the gasoline. They make their money from the store. Tesla is like those gas stations. They make their money from selling cars. The Supercharger network doesn't need to be a source of profit on its own, and the rates can be set to reflect that. For the other charger networks, the charger is their sole income source.
     
  19. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    at one time, wasn't there a notion that companies like 7-11, Walmart or Circle K would be able to put up a DC QC to draw in more business?
    .
     
  20. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Some gas stations/rest stops are starting too.
     
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