Featured CHAdeMO Stepping up Game

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by iplug, Aug 25, 2018.

  1. iplug

    iplug Senior Member

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    ...the Japanese CHAdeMO and Chinese GB/T could be harmonized into a single next-generation ultra-fast charging standard with backward compatibility to older CHAdeMO and GB/T cars.

    The Memorandum of Understanding between CHAdeMO Association and the China Electricity Council (CEC) for co-development of a joint standard is to be signed on August 28th in Beijing, China with the green light from governments of both countries.

    China Turns To CHAdeMO For Fast Charging: Single Unified Standard
     
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  2. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Just when everyone was trying to count them out. Bam.
    .
     
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  3. iplug

    iplug Senior Member

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    CHAdeMO currently has a bigger presence in the U.S.. But like the Kona EV, newer contenders have been turning to the CCS standard.

    Would be nice to have a unified standard here, but doesn't look like this will be settled anytime soon.
     
  4. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    It isn't as if we truly need a unified standard here.
    Chargers going in now support both. A fast DC charger costs $60k to $100k to install on the low end. Even counting licensing fees, having both plugs is a small addition to the total.

    Because of the markets' proximity, unifying GB/T and CHAdeMO is good for the manufacturers and car exporters.
     
  5. iplug

    iplug Senior Member

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    The current situation in the U.S. is workable and may end up not changing drastically. But a unified standard would be a significant improvement. A combined CCS to a CHAdeMO unit may not be terribly more expensive to install than one with single DC hardware. But the communication standards are different, and the hardware continues to evolve separately. That makes it more costly for maintenance than a combined standard.

    The consumer can also be affected. In my area there are a fair number of combined CHAdeMO/CCS units and often one or more of the CCS plugs goes down making that location unusable if you use CCS. If there was one standard and 1 of 2 plugs went down on a unit, the stop is still viable.
     
    #5 iplug, Aug 25, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2018
  6. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    especially as long as there are clever people & companies, both making different kinds of adapters - for example ;
    CHAdeMO to Tesla adapter ....

    [​IMG]

    Tesla to J-1772 Plug adapter ;

    [​IMG]

    ..... and my all time favorite - most any power source (single or 3 phase) to most any plugin with TONS of adapters, turning on what car you charge, & what power type & level (incredible !!!)
    :eek:
    [​IMG]
    Here it is, hooked up to the familiar J-1772 plug we all know & love

    New Picture (1).jpg

    And if toyota ever adds higher charge capability to their Prime ... or if/when Toyota returns to building EV's ... this bad boy can deliver an incredible 22kW's !!
    .
     
    #6 hill, Aug 26, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2018
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  7. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The US would likely end up with CCS for the simple fact that it is cheaper to install on a car. CHAdeMO went with a separate plug for DC charging, while CCS is just an add on to J1772.

    The only companies pushing CHAdeMO here are the Japanese ones with shares in it. It is common because Nissan pushed it with the introduction of the Leaf, and the lack of a competing standard early on. Leaf sales have momentum, but their battery thermal management doesn't inspire confidence, and there is more models supporting CCS now. Maybe if Toyota had brought CHAdeMO over for the Prime the standard would get a fresh push for it, but Toyota is still fence sitting over BEVs.
     
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  8. iplug

    iplug Senior Member

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    Provided one has the CHAdeMO to Tesla adapter, it means Tesla is always ahead of CHAdeMO in the DC fast charging station deployment game.

    Anyone know if there are any products that are CCS->CHAdeMO or vice versa and if more than a simple adapter is needed?

    As of the 2019 Nissan Leaf, it will have battery thermal management, at least for the new larger e-Plus battery versions.

    Don't know if and how much the Japanese/Chinese CHAdeMO developments will affect us here in the States. If Toyota finally wakes up and brings a BEV into the fray here, they could change the balance.
     
  9. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    With China as the next big market with strong plug in support, there is a chance GB/T could be adopted as a universal standard by manufacturers. I'd say the chances are slim.

    On Inside EVs sales scorecard, just three of the models listed use CHAdeMO; the Leaf, Outlander PHEV, and Soul EV. The other non-Teslas that offer DC charging use CCS.

    The long range Leaf can help CHAdeMO long term prospects, but I think the edge will go to whoever starts with faster chargers. The majority of ones currently installed are 50kW at highest, and I suspect many of the early CHAdeMO ones are slower.
     
  10. iplug

    iplug Senior Member

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    Their website lists 32 amps, so with US households, typical single phase AC at 240V, it would do the typical 7.7kW max.

    But look like if you can get access to 400V (maximum rated) 3-phase, at 32 amps one could hit 22kW. Industrial and commercial sites have this commonly? How much to pull this into a residential unit?
     
  11. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Toyota already has delivered that. 80% recharge in 20 minutes. Remember, the CHAdeMO plug for Prime in Japan?

    7 kWh in 20 minutes works out to 21 kWh for 60 minutes of charging... a rate of 21 kW.

    In other words, very close to incredible.
     
  12. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    now all I got to do is move to Japan. Maybe ken has an extra room for me ...

    .
     
  13. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    That lack of infrastructure here made it easy for Toyota to hold off on the offering. In the meantime, they are still collecting precious real-world data.
     
  14. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    I sure hope they hurry up & finish that data collecting soon. It looks like if they already had done so, those 5,000/month ev sales going to the orher guys could have / would have / should have gone to Toyota. I know Toyota is a CHAdeMO member, but does anyone know if they help pay for / sponsor QC infrastructure over in Japan?
    IIRC - i just read that China is going to use this format - as well as their own proprietary version. That's got to help CHAdeMO, considering China is now the largest auto market in the world - & their EV sales ain't too shabby either, what with their serious air pollution issues - needing to cut back airborne particulate.
    .
     
  15. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    But that isn't AC charging. The Chameleon charger in Renaults can do the 22kW AC, and on introduction, they can handle 43kW from fast AC chargers. That fell out of favour for DC charging.

    The Prime didn't get CHAdeMO in the US because we have a more powerful grid supplying our homes. Charging the Prime at half the residences in Japan would take 10 hours or more at level 1, and level 2 isn't an option. So many driving plug ins there are relying on public chargers as their primary source. It is also why $3000 for a solar charger option can be offered.

    The homely 15 amp outlet in the US can charge a Prime twice as fast as there. Home charging is the primary way of fueling a plug in here. Then we have cheap gasoline, making the cost of a CHAdeMO option less attractive.

    CHAdeMO is pretty well established through much of Asia. Merging it with China's makes sense for the region. For the US, I think CCS has the advantage as it likely costs less to the car manufacturer. Honda and Hyundai chose it for their latest BEVs in the US.
     
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