Challenge: Name an institution that has donated more humantarian aid for the sick and poor than the

I admit, I am guilty of arguing quite a bit in the gay thread fairytale and the religion threads. You know what, I think religion can be great. It gives people that need something to believe in solace, and you are completely correct that religious charities help alot of people. However, I have zero tolerence for the fundamentalist movement that attacks anything they deem as "immoral" by the writings in the Bible. Do whatever you want with your life. It's when you start forcing your views on the rest of us that I quickly step up to draw a line in the sand. Arguing against science because it contradicts your magic book, condemning other human beings because of whom they choose to love, or trying to force religion on other peoples children pisses me off to no end. Many of the colonists came here to escape religious persecution from their homelands. It is one of the main reasons for seperation of church and state and what has built this nation into the great country it became. Now there are people trying to tear that down. I hope for us all they do not succeed.

 

They could feed and clothe every poor human being on earth and it STILL wouldn't give them the right to assume they can dictate to me or anyone else how to live our lives.

I have no problem with people practicing whatever religion they choose, but I have ZERO respect for religious zealots who think they should be able to control how Americans live their lives and how they are governed, whether they donate crap or not.

Couldn't care less and its run me out of the Republican party, I officially changed my party designation last week.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SW03ES @ May 2 2006, 09:31 PM) [snapback]248838[/snapback]</div>

Congratulations- and welcome to the other-than-Republicans (I'm not assuming anything about your new party affiliation)!
I've never been a Republican, but I know good people who are, and that party will end up driving everyone out except for the intolerant fundamentalists, bigots, neocons, and greedy corporate bastards.

 

Why do so many of these Christian organizations (e.g., Christian Coalition of America) have, as one of their main priorities, maintaining Bush's tax cuts? SOmehow, I don't think that Christ would advocate tax cuts for the wealthy.

 

Is there any religion other than christianity that has resulted in more child molestations?

 

Wildkow,

How about sectarian non-believers who think it is ok to be religious, or not, just as long as you don't think you know more about how to live (or about God) than they do?

How about we combine that group with a grouping of moderates in all religions who don't think they can tell others how to live or what God is all about (thus forming a new group to consider)?

I suspect that hybrid-group, world-wide, knocks the snot out of any other single group, and has done less harm.

I don't even believe in God and I am willing to bet I have just as deep and valid insights and experiences (but not necessarily more, or more correct) into it as you do. Your experience is valid, mine is valid, just don't try to force yours on me and mine.

I am also willing to bet that if there is a God he doesn't give a flip about whether I believe in him/her/it or not. He'd be more interested in my happiness and how I treat others (including the planet). Period.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wildkow @ May 2 2006, 01:34 AM) [snapback]248438[/snapback]</div>

CARE USA has contributed $514 million in FY 05 (www.care.org).

Have YOU given US any stats yet on how much the Christian Church gave in FY 05? And Christian Church is pretty broad. Which one? There are many, as you know.

Question-if you are a non-Fundamentalist Christian, why are you so upset? I've agreed with you on another thread that most Christians are good. It's the right wing, Evangelicals that are the extreme. No different than Al Queda or Hammas in my mind.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eyeguy13 @ May 3 2006, 01:11 AM) [snapback]248962[/snapback]</div>

I agree 100% about right wing Christians being more like dictatorial and tyrannical extremist in other religions than they are representative of true Americn values.

I'm not so sure I would lump Hamas in with Al Queda however.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wildkow @ May 2 2006, 10:38 PM) [snapback]248872[/snapback]</div>

Well, that's too be expected. Your premise provided no proof that "the Christian Church" donated anything, yet you reject any other group as even possibly donating more.

Here's one for you: prove that the Devil isn't running "the Christian Church". I say he is, and any good works are to distract us from the evil being done. The Bible never said The Mark Of The Beast couldn't be a cross, did it?...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wildkow @ May 2 2006, 07:38 PM) [snapback]248872[/snapback]</div>

And as so many have already pointed out - we haven't seen anything close to *supporting* your "challenge." This is YOUR thread, as you point out so often. Why not show your cards?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wildkow @ May 2 2006, 09:38 PM) [snapback]248872[/snapback]</div>

The point of the Christian church is not to save souls??? I know quite a few Christians who would argue with you over that one!

I didn't mean to come across as whining or disparaging. In fact I was trying to come up with a rationale why religion is being attacked on this board the way it is. For my painting with a broad brush, when one thinks of the Christian church since the time of Christ, one must consider the role of the Catholic Church from the Holy Roman Empire, thru the conquest of the Americas, the Inquisition, persecution of the Jews (including WWII, but before that as well), etc. There's a lot of history there, and a lot of it is checkered. A lot of that is because it's been a major force in the recorded history of the western world so there's been much opportunity for mistakes as well as greatness. They've also produced great works of art (The Last Supper, Sistine Chapel, etc.), and outside the headlines have taught us a great deal how to improve ourselves and yes, taking care of others has always been a central theme of Christianity. Modern priest abuse scandals are a minor (but serious) aspect of things overall.

Bottom line, most everybody has a strong feeling on religion and what part wins out. Saying "I win" because people haven't refuted your own viewpoint of one aspect of it seems a little immature. I think you're right in that the Christian church, because of its size and history, has given more humanitarian aid than any other institution or government. In fact I think it's pretty obvious, since the other major religion bases don't have the rich demographics that Christianity does, for one reason or another. So naturally that makes me wonder why you asked the question. Does that make it okay for supporters of intelligent design to be smug? Does it justify those who want to multiply and be masters of the Earth, as opposed to be stewards of it? Or to put into law some Christian's view of abortion or gay rights over other groups' and Christian's views? I'm just making things up here, but it still seems that the original question is not really the point of the Christian church.

I better stop here. I'm supposed to be working, and this is making me think too much

nerfer

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wildkow @ May 1 2006, 11:34 PM) [snapback]248438[/snapback]</div>

Science.

In the field of medicine, science eclipses every religious institution across history. No church eradicated a single disease, no church pioneered surgical techniques, no church discovered a single pharmaceutical, no church invented a single medical device, no church even made pretense of trying to learn the secrets of human anatomy and biology. Across the world, lifespans are generally longer AND healthier as the result of science. In helping ELIMINATE illness, Science: 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000; Church: 0.

In the field of prosperity, science eclipses every religious institution across history. No church pioneered agriculture, no church developed selective breeding in food plants and animals, no church conducted research in physics, mathematics, or literature or even so much as supported same. Churches did and continue today to OPPOSE same. Despite the best efforts of the church to retard progress, across the world, standards of living have most of us enjoying privileges unattainable by kings a few centuries ago, and poverty is decreasing. In helping REDUCE poverty, Science: 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000; Church: 0.

Meanwhile, we're all still waiting for YOUR numbers, Mr. Wildkow.

At the present time, it appears YOU are the only one who believes the issue has not yet been answered, and resoundingly.

Mark Baird
Alameda CA

 

fantastic post, airportkid.